Stronghold Builder's Guidebook and Income

[Nebt Bhakau]

Does anyone else find the income system in the Stronghold Builder's guidebook a bit wanting? Why would I bother to build an inn if the darn thing doesnt start turning a profit until its eleventh year? Is there a better way to determine income from barter / taxes / speculative trade? As always, your thoughts, comments, and baseless speculations are appreciated!

 

[Tatsukun]

Well, maybe an inn would attract bigger spending customers to your other retail outlets. Or, maybe you just want to have a place for people to stay in your castle.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. If you mean that you are the innkeeper (not the lord of the area), then you have to think of it as a long-term investment. If you build a successful inn, you are set for life, as are your kids and their kids...

-Tatsu

 

[Nebt Bhakau]

I was just using the inn as an example. I'm less worried about how innkeepers pay their bills and provide for their children than I am about how local lords pay for their troops. SBG gives you 1% profit a year. I've never run a business before, but that seems to me a rather small profit margin. Even money sitting in the bank gets you more than that for your investment.

Perhaps it's more of a cultural thing. Some people are concerned with providing for their children, and I immediately worry about my own immediate profit and paying for my elaborate military. Can you tell what country I'm from?

 

[kigmatzomat]

I was just using the inn as an example. I'm less worried about how innkeepers pay their bills and provide for their children than I am about how local lords pay for their troops. SBG gives you 1% profit a year. I've never run a business before, but that seems to me a rather small profit margin. Even money sitting in the bank gets you more than that for your investment.

I think it's general oversimplification. First off, they have no maintenance or upkeep required on properties. Poof, you've just elminated a good amount of revenue. Second the system doesn't reflect good years vs. bad years. Third, I think they like the idea of "just squeaking by" as a theme. The fact is that something like 70% of small businesses go under in 5 years. This elminates that as well, providing another level of simplification.

I'd dunno what a good profit rate is expected to be (any small business owners or accountants want to chime in?) but I'd go with about 3-5% after salaries and expenses. That means that if Innkeep Bob gets paid a salary of 5 gp/wk at the 10,000gp inn he owns he earns 5gp x 52wks + 10,000gp x 3-5% = 560gp-760/year. (Books not handy so I guessed Bob's take as a Professional)

That's probably conservative but my thinking is that I don't want a growth economy in most fantasy worlds that aren't post-war settings. I generally like the "been this way for last century or three" idea, simply because of demihuman social inertia as the dwarves, elves, gnomes, and halflings act as a massive damper on social and economic change.

 

[Nebt Bhakau]

No wonder so many youngsters turn to grave robbing to supplement their income.

Morbid joking aside, it's nice to get such insightful, thoughtful responses that actually answer the question I posed. On my previous post, I asked for suggestions on creative use of an animate dead spell, and got things like 'put zombies in a swamp.'

 

[adwyn]

As a real world commercial real estate broker, I can tell you that not turning a profit for the first ten years is by no means unrealistic (though not desired)for a small businesses. However, the owners also usually serve as the help, thus receiving some form of subsistance level living by recieving wages.

In the medeival economic model as well as in many rural areas of the modern world this is seen as acceptable, and if a business rises to much more than that it will invite competition.

Keep in mind much of the traditional economic model for D&D is seen as a "zero sum" situation. For there to economic growth something else must give.

 

[Nebt Bhakau]

I learn something new everyday. Thanks, adwyn.

Now, see, why don't they put a paragraph like that in the DMG? It also goes a long way toward explaining why so many people are adventurers, pirates, bandits, etc. - it's not only a way to get rich quick, it's the only way.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I see you've discovered the real world dilemma that faced many warlords: how to make your military conquests financially viable without bankrupting your country. Realistically, you can't sustain a large military forever (at least, not without having your own society degrade drastically).

However, this is D&D so it probably comes down to how you convince your soldiers to follow you for long lengths of time. Humans would probably want to get back to their farms to plant/bring in crops. In D&D terms, I'd say who cares how much it costs. Do you really want to become a D&D accountant or economist? And if so, you'll discover how wanting the system is in this regard. I'd concentrate more on how you'll attract and retain your troops, rather than how much they cost. That has much more interesting role-playing and adventure opportunities. When it comes to money, just run a dragon slaying adventure and say the proceeds from the dragon's hoard pay for your army (for a time...).

 

[MarauderX]

Building developers and owners do not invest in something that doesn't turn a profit in 5 years or more. Often they are reluctant to spend on a building unless it will start earning them money in less than two, and it takes that long for the architect, engineering and contracting teams to finish a decent sized project.

I don't have the Stronghold Builders guide, but for kingdom/barony/province cash flow I would check out Fields of Blood. It doesn't list prices and profits for small buildings, but has info on churchs and other significant projects.

 

[Nebt Bhakau]

What is Fields of Blood? I've never heard of it.