Studying an opponent

[Quickleaf]

I'm creating a house rule that allows anyone to size up another character. Obviously, this will mainly be used by the PCs to learn about the NPCs they encounter. I think that a character's skills/class choices should determine how much they can learn from watching another. After a couple rounds of observation (3 perhaps? observation=standard action), you may make skill check to learn about an NPC.

Sorts of things you can learn by studying an opponent...
Best/worst saving throw (Int check)
Best/worst ability score (Int check)
Character flaws / actual weaknesses (Wis check)
Who the NPC was trained by (requires Knowledge skill covering NPC's area of expertise, or requires belonging to same class or organization)
Fighting styles (Fighter level check? or appropriate Knowledge check?)
Main school/domain(s) of magic (Spellcraft check? Knowledge (religion) check?)

Modifiers (bonus/penalty to skill check)
An old friend or close ally +5
They do not sense you watching +5
You have faced them before +2
They have an insignia/dress style that clearly identifies them +2
You are blinded or cannot see opponent -15
You are biased (filled with anger, been intimidated, afraid) -2
You are seriously ill or wounded -3
Someone from a different culture -5

I remember seeing a thread on this not too long ago? Anyone remember?

 

[Felnar]

can't you use sense motive to size up an opponenet and determine their CL?
or maybe thats a feat...

 

[Ferret]

I wouldn't think it owuld come up often enough to matter but they look like OK rules.

 

[domino]

I know there's a feat in CAdv that allows you to size up the enemy.

 

[genshou]

It is a good idea to have some of these things rely on abilty checks, rather than skill checks. That way, the DC doesn't become a trifling thing, even at high levels.

Generally, you should use a Sense Motive check to determine a foe's combat capabilities. Rules for this exist in many sources, including the Iaijutsu Duel rules from Oriental Adventures.

Basically, just use the kind of check that would make sense for determining a specific aspect about the character you are trying to observe. You wouldn't make an Int check to determine something that is unrelated to your intellectual abilities, and by the same token, you wouldn't determine another character's spiritual strength with anything but your own wisdom.

Also, some things would have to be observed in action. For example, you wouldn't be able to figure out how skilled of a tumbler someone was until you saw them use the Tumble skill somehow, just as you can't tell how good a bard is with their performances until you witness their use.

 

[Quickleaf]

It is a good idea to have some of these things rely on abilty checks, rather than skill checks. That way, the DC doesn't become a trifling thing, even at high levels.

Right on.

Generally, you should use a Sense Motive check to determine a foe's combat capabilities. Rules for this exist in many sources, including the Iaijutsu Duel rules from Oriental Adventures.

What if the character with sense motive is a non-combatant who knows nothing of battle? I think using a fighter's (or paladin/ranger) class level would work better. Maybe the check could be d20 + WIS + warrior class level (or number of fighter feats a non-warrior character posseses)?

Basically, just use the kind of check that would make sense for determining a specific aspect about the character you are trying to observe. You wouldn't make an Int check to determine something that is unrelated to your intellectual abilities, and by the same token, you wouldn't determine another character's spiritual strength with anything but your own wisdom.

Hmm...I beg to differ. If you look at the perception skills Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive, they're all modified based on Wisdom. This begs the question: Should Wisdom be used as a modifier on all checks to study your opponent?

Also, some things would have to be observed in action. For example, you wouldn't be able to figure out how skilled of a tumbler someone was until you saw them use the Tumble skill somehow, just as you can't tell how good a bard is with their performances until you witness their use.

A skilled warrior might notice the Tumbler's pants worn at the knees, lithe physique, and may even recognize their fighting style as a tumbling style.
A noble who frequently hires entertainment may note that the bard avoids talking about musical theory, carries their violin in a viola case, has an "assistant" tune the instrument, and recognizes a brooch the bard is wearing from a bard who just visited.

In other words, "study opponent" type skill/ability puts into rules what a lot of us have been role-playing all along. It provides a sense of connection in the campaign world, that no one exists in a vacuum. It provides a rules mechanism for awesome twists like... recognizing your opponent's fighting style as your own teacher's martial art. It gives player's a better idea of when intimidating is appropriate, and when compromise is the better part of valor. It provides player's with a feel for their opponents, very important when you have beginning players, or the PCs are being pitted against new foes, or you have many non-standard classes in your campaign. How is anyone to know what everyone else can do?

 

[Jdvn1]

I know there's a feat in CAdv that allows you to size up the enemy.

It's not a feat, it's a use of the Sense Motive skill, and I believe you are able to estimate someone's CR.

 

[domino]

No, it's a feat, I'm pretty sure. It's got the illustration of a fighter just being missed by an ogre with it.

 

[domino]

The feat I was thinking of was Combat Intuition.

 

[Jdvn1]

On page 102 of the Complete Advenuter, they list the new use of the Sense Motive skill -- Assess Opponent. The Combat Intuition feat merely helps you with that use of Sense Motive.