Studying an opponent

[Storyteller01]

What if the character with sense motive is a non-combatant who knows nothing of battle? I think using a fighter's (or paladin/ranger) class level would work better. Maybe the check could be d20 + WIS + warrior class level (or number of fighter feats a non-warrior character posseses)?[?QUOTE]

In OA, everyone was versed in combat, if not proficient. The Corteir had to know what level General he was dealing with.

It also works the other way; courtier would need to size up his negotiating 'opponent'.

Hmm...I beg to differ. If you look at the perception skills Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive, they're all modified based on Wisdom. This begs the question: Should Wisdom be used as a modifier on all checks to study your opponent?

Depends on the feel you want. Do you want it based as a means of knowledge through previous study, or an intuitive understanding of stance, guard, etc?

 

[Storyteller01]

Also, some things would have to be observed in action. For example, you wouldn't be able to figure out how skilled of a tumbler someone was until you saw them use the Tumble skill somehow, just as you can't tell how good a bard is with their performances until you witness their use.

Not alwas true. In a group of dancers, you can tell the best by their balance and movement. Everything trends to move into their center (I can't describe it much better without pics). Same with tumblers. Even the 'buff' tumbling practitioners tend to have a long, slim(ish) physique. You might not know they Tumble, but you know they can fight (by their stance) and the lack of mass means they rely on mobility. Instrumental is another story.

 

[genshou]

Not alwas true. In a group of dancers, you can tell the best by their balance and movement. Everything trends to move into their center (I can't describe it much better without pics). Same with tumblers. Even the 'buff' tumbling practitioners tend to have a long, slim(ish) physique. You might not know they Tumble, but you know they can fight (by their stance) and the lack of mass means they rely on mobility. Instrumental is another story.

While that is sometimes true, it doesn't hold true in all circumstances. To really get a good feel of someone's capabilities, it's easiest to see them in action first. For example, I have all the qualities you imply (balance and movement, everything tending to move into my center, long, slim physique)...

But I can't dance for the life of me, and if I even tried to do anything covered under the definition of a D&D "tumble," I'd fall flat on my face. What I do have is near-perfect balance and quick evasion of attacks (high Dex and Balance skill).

So, it can sometimes be apparent through their posture or certain visual cues (such as pants worn at the knees), but some of that seems too situational for me to use as the "standard" sizing up rules (it could certainly provide a circumstance bonus to the roll, and sometimes allow a check when one might not normally be entitled to one).

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I've been mulling over for some time the idea of allowing martial characters to have their reputations precede them.

I wasn't sure how I wanted to do this. . .

I considered that characters who want to try to recognize a martial character who makes no efforts at disguise might make a check: d20+Wis mod+BAB vs. a DC of 10+target's (20 - [target's BAB+Cha mod])

I decided in the end that this is probably more complex than I need, but I still would really like some kind of mechanic. The first time I watched Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and everybody's so impressed when Jin claims to have defeated Li Mu Bai, because of course, EVERYBODY knows Li Mu Bai.