"Stumbling Around in My Head" - The Feeling of Dissociation as a Player

[mmadsen]

But this I get: Roll = swing. Yeah. I feel like that too when I roll those dice.

I have no trouble with a system where roll and miss means feint and see no opening, but roll and hit really does feel like it should mean swing and hit.

 

[Neonchameleon]

No, I'm asking you to be far more specific about what pulling out all the stops means, because making an extra effort when you see your chance in real life is nothing like using up a daily power in the game -- although both may appear the same from the outside

It means different things to different people and in different situations. The incredibly tiring Rain of Steel stance that burns through your stamina isn't the same as a single minded deconstruction of your target's fighting style to the exclusion of the rest of the fight (Villain's Menace) or reaching deep into yourself to find the strength to keep fighting (any 'spend a surge' power).

The GM doesn't run a 1st level adventure for 10th level characters - the character (in an open sandbox type world) would choose to go to the 1st level area - and wipe everything out. No level challenges. But no real reward for their actions either.

A fire in a first level dungeon would do X damage, and have Y save.
A fire in a 10th level dungeon would do A damage, and have B save.

But those damages and saves had no relation to the party, other than the party (whatever level) went into said fire at whatever level they were.

And that there was an expected level for the party to be at in the dungeon or sandbox area.

 

[prosfilaes]

You can get a coal fire hot enough to melt iron with sufficient air and enclosure. Would you agree that a human can not survive in an environment that will melt iron?

Sure. What I don't agree is that high-level PCs in D&D are in any meaningful way human. Raising people from the dead is a big clue, as is killing Godzilla in hand-to-hand (hand-to-foot?) combat.

And as for your example, it is as if you don't know how the 4e rules work at all. The damage expressions GreyICE was praising are on a specific table, setting low, medium, high, and limited damage expressions. The damage by level at level 30 is approximately 4.5 times that at level 1.

In a forum "For discussion of ALL tabletop gaming except D&D and Pathfinder which belong in the dedicated forums below" I don't really expect to have to have memorized 4e.

(and you're going to be using low or medium for the fire because it's an area effect thing),

No, the post that started this subthread said "D&D 4E lets you set narrative damage for fire. Want people to be panicking? Go to page 42 chart, pick a moderate or high damage type, make that the environmental damage for being in the firefield." (Emphasis mine.)

And I'm not arguing anything about D&D 4 versus D&D 3. I'm arguing that in any form of D&D, the DM should construct an obstacle (level-appropriate, if that's the way you're playing) and set the damage based on it. If you want to make people panic in a fire, make a fire that's panic-worthy; barrels of pitch, fireworks, fire elementals, whatever. Don't just attach whatever damage you need to whatever effect is convenient.

 

[GreyICE]

And I'm not arguing anything about D&D 4 versus D&D 3. I'm arguing that in any form of D&D, the DM should construct an obstacle (level-appropriate, if that's the way you're playing) and set the damage based on it. If you want to make people panic in a fire, make a fire that's panic-worthy; barrels of pitch, fireworks, fire elementals, whatever. Don't just attach whatever damage you need to whatever effect is convenient.

Ah. And this being simulationist, you should have specific damage values for barrels of pitch, fireworks, and fire elementals. Therefore, if you want to make the scene work, the DM should carefully calculate how many barrels of pitch, how many fireworks, and how many fire elementals he wants in each fire.

"So this fire has 4 barrels of pitch, a fireworks barrel, and a surprisingly non-hostile fire elemental. But the next one has 6 barrels of pitch, 3 fireworks barrels, and 2 fire elementals!"

Yeah. Now I offer you two descriptions of a fire:

"The fire is burning at a moderate pace, flames licking up from the floor to brush against the walls. You can see fire starting to run up the curtains, and the heat presses against your face."

And

"You see a window blowout in a gout of flame from the burning building. The towering inferno has consumed most of the interior, and the heat presses against you. You see paint blistering on nearby buildings from the intensity of the flame. From what you can make out of the inside the floors appear to be holding, but it's only a matter of time before they collapse."

Hmmm.

Yeah, I'll be sticking with describing my fires so my players know what to expect. It's a hell of a lot more interesting, it's more fun, and I don't need to be counting out barrels of pitch and fireworks. And if Next tells me that "fire does 1d6 damage" I can ignore it, or ignore Next.

 

[prosfilaes]

Ah. And this being simulationist, you should have specific damage values for barrels of pitch, fireworks, and fire elementals.

Watch out; I think your strawman just caught fire. And because I get to set the damage arbitrarily, I think it's doing 50d6 a round.

 

[GreyICE]

Watch out; I think your strawman just caught fire. And because I get to set the damage arbitrarily, I think it's doing 50d6 a round.

So you're telling me that you don't need exact damage values of Pitch and Fireworks. But you do need exact damage values of fire that does NOT include Pitch and Fireworks.

Ooooooookayyyyy.

I do not understand this.

 

[Eridanis]

OK. This thread has gone on for 25 pages and people seem to be taking swipes at each other for no good reason. This thread is closed; please feel free to start a new thread on the topic in a few days when heads are cooler and everyone can be civil.