Stupid epic level question

[Mystery Man]

I'm making a mummy warlock who has 8 hit dice of mummy and 12 hit dice of warlock. The next hit dice of warlock put him in epic levels? Do I follow the level progression of "special" and the number of invocations known up to the character level of 20 and use the save and attack bonuses of epic level? Or does he not get to learn any more invocations?

Thanks.

 

[Crothian]

it is not total HD that determines epic, it is ecl.....so I'd imagine he hit epic before this since the ecl of a mummy should be more then +0

 

[Mystery Man]

Well it doesnt give a level adjustment for the mummy, but it does have a CR of 5. So right now he's a CR of 17 with 20 hit dice. I guess I'm unclear on when I should even start counting epic.

 

[saucercrab]

AFAIK, HD determine when a character starts gaining epic BAB & epic saves (21+ class levels, or 20 monster HD + 1 class level, or any combination thereof; monster HD never use epic advancement by themselves).

ECL determines when a character can start getting epic feats (while still fulfilling all the other prerequisites).

I agree with Crothian, a mummy should have a LA tacked on to its HD. You'll have to determine the LA for mummy to see when the character could've gotten its first epic feat. 'Course, since this sounds like an NPC/creature to be encountered by PC's, you can ignore the LA/ECL.

 

[Eremite]

I thought that the way it worked was that Epic BAB and saves only begin once a PC/NPC has acquired more than 20 class levels and that monster hit dice do not ever count for Epic BAB and save progressions.

ECL of 21+ is important only for the purpose of permitting characters to have access to Epic feats.

I'm pretty sure that these are the rules as written (and which charmingly highlight the need for a revised ELH).

 

[saucercrab]

I thought that the way it worked was that Epic BAB and saves only begin once a PC/NPC has acquired more than 20 class levels and that monster hit dice do not ever count for Epic BAB and save progressions.

Hmm, I just checked the FAQ, Errata & 3.5 Update booklet, & it seems that what I spouted isn't actually stated. I guess it just makes sense to me (& after believing something long enough, it becomes truth).

It doesn't state either way about what happens when you combine monster HD & PC class levels in excess of 20. All it states (via the monster stat blocks) is that monster HD by themselves never use the epic BAB & saves.

 

[Eremite]

Hmm, I just checked the FAQ, Errata & 3.5 Update booklet, & it seems that what I spouted isn't actually stated. I guess it just makes sense to me (& after believing something long enough, it becomes truth).

It doesn't state either way about what happens when you combine monster HD & PC class levels in excess of 20. All it states (via the monster stat blocks) is that monster HD by themselves never use the epic BAB & saves.

Again, a fundamental problem with the ELH is that specific issues like this are not specifically addressed. I'm pretty sure that the answer I gave above is correct by the rules as written and subsequently clarified by WotC.

Personally, I'm just going to stick to the existing BAB and save progressions and forget the ELH rules.

 

[saucercrab]

Again, a fundamental problem with the ELH is that specific issues like this are not specifically addressed. I'm pretty sure that the answer I gave above is correct by the rules as written and subsequently clarified by WotC.

Can you please explain how it's not specifically addressed, but that it is clarified?

 

[Crimson_Manticore]

Actually, the 3.5 DMG does address this very thing. On page 209, under “Monsters as Epic Characters”, it makes it clear that once a Monster with class levels reaches ECL 21, it gains epic attack and save bonuses.

 

[saucercrab]

I can almost get behind that. Except that it flies in the face of the fact that ECL isn't supposed to determine when epic BAB & saves are gained.

By that passage, a ghaele eladrin PC gets really, really, really screwed.