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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9241406" data-attributes="member: 6684958">I think the twist here is many people are crossing over the D&amp;D game with role playing.First off, D&amp;D is not and has never been a game where you role play out a life of an imaginary character.&nbsp; Yes, the game says that in commercials and buzz lines.&nbsp; They print 'role playing game' right on everything.&nbsp; The term role playing game is&nbsp; D&amp;D.&nbsp; Though it is a bit like taking any random liquid and saying that liquid is &quot;milk&quot;.&nbsp; D&amp;D is a roll playing game.&nbsp; I know many hate those words....so maybe we will say &quot;mechanical combat adventure game&quot;.&nbsp; That is just about all that D&amp;D even has rules for.&nbsp; Like sure the D&amp;D books have like five pages that say &quot;oh give your character a personality&quot;......and then they have 500 pages of mechanical combat adventure rules.&nbsp; Very much agreed.&nbsp; I have run D&amp;D in lots of different play styles.&nbsp; But there is the twist here....Technically you do &quot;any style&quot; by not &quot;playing D&amp;D&quot;: you just Role Play.&nbsp; When a PC in a D&amp;D game wants to be elected mayor of a town....there are no D&amp;D rules for this.&nbsp; You take the books, rules and dice and just brush them off the table and Role Play the mayor's race.A RPG about becoming mayor would have each play taking 'campaign turns' and spending 'political points' to try and get the most 'vote points'.&nbsp; And the player with the most vote points gets to become mayor.&nbsp; Or in other words: have deeply detailed mechanical rules.D&amp;D does do a sad toe dip from time to time into &quot;other&quot; stuff.&nbsp; Like a dumb rule of &quot;oh just roll Charisma and the highest gets to be mayor&quot;.&nbsp; But that is nothing but fake gaming.&nbsp; Would you play D&amp;D if combat was &quot;oh just roll two d20, higher one wins the whole combat&quot;?Guess I have to agree twice.&nbsp; I have long, long, long pushed the limits of D&amp;Ds skills and abilities.&nbsp; I run a very detailed, very immersive game.&nbsp; A player makes a swashbuckling sailor, but with no rules support, they just play as themselves &quot;whatever&quot;.&nbsp; I try hard to get such a player to use say preform for actions: they just don't get it.&nbsp; Though I also still use some ancient swashbuckling rules from Dragon to help out too.The big part here though is to take a step back from the game.&nbsp; The average player knows nothing about swashbuckling or sailing. Or even life before the 20th century.&nbsp; So, I make a big point to teach players.&nbsp; At least the ones willing to learn.&nbsp; I give them books to read and tv shows and movies to watch.&nbsp; And real history stuff too.&nbsp; This gives players a lot more tools too.This really is taking a big step back.&nbsp; This is where the &quot;real&quot; style comes in.My game is a fast paced unfair hard fun epic adventure.&nbsp; It's really the only type of game I mostly run.&nbsp; And I look for (or create) players just for this type of game.&nbsp; It's a very unique style: most other games are nothing like it.They ruined the Beholder 5E to make it super week, but the classic beholder (1-3E) encounter is a perfect example:Other games: The beholder uses telekinisis to throw a rock at a PC for 1d6 damage.&nbsp; And the beholder &quot;randomly&quot; targets The Tank with cause wounds for like 11 damage.&nbsp; Or the beholder tries sleep on a immune or high save character.My game:&nbsp; The most powerful looking spellcaster is distengerated: zap dead character.&nbsp; The 2nd most one is turned to stone.&nbsp; And the beholder has a magically poisoned thorn to shoot with telekinises.&nbsp; This is not a problem with the game.&nbsp; This is a problem with the DM.&nbsp; It is beyond easy to block nearly everything.&nbsp; And it's all right there in the rules.&nbsp; You just need a DM with the ability and will power to do so.And beyond the written rules...you have imagination.&nbsp; No &quot;rules&quot; cover everything....that is why a DM can imagine up things.&nbsp; D&amp;D 5E core rules don't have 'time' spells.&nbsp; But say a player gets some.&nbsp; They try and do a Time Heist....and fail.&nbsp; Because the DM has thought of that and added in time defenses.&nbsp; So the DMs Protection from Time, smacks down the players idea.&nbsp; You just need a DM with the ability and will power to do so.NOTE:&nbsp; This is NOT to say no player can ever do anything ever in a game.&nbsp; It's saying the game NEVER &quot;has to be&quot; the DM just sitting there and watching the players Easy Button play and bypass everything in the game worldTrue, D&amp;D does not support this.&nbsp; But if it did it would need 500 pages and be another game.Of course, you can just Role Play.&nbsp; With no rules or system.....True, D&amp;D does not support this.&nbsp; But if it did it would need 500 pages and be another game.Of course, you can just Role Play.&nbsp; With no rules or system.....Ok....agreed here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9241406, member: 6684958"] I think the twist here is many people are crossing over the D&D game with role playing. First off, D&D is not and has never been a game where you role play out a life of an imaginary character. Yes, the game says that in commercials and buzz lines. They print 'role playing game' right on everything. The term role playing game is D&D. Though it is a bit like taking any random liquid and saying that liquid is "milk". D&D is a roll playing game. I know many hate those words....so maybe we will say "mechanical combat adventure game". That is just about all that D&D even has rules for. Like sure the D&D books have like five pages that say "oh give your character a personality"......and then they have 500 pages of mechanical combat adventure rules. Very much agreed. I have run D&D in lots of different play styles. But there is the twist here.... Technically you do "any style" by not "playing D&D": you just Role Play. When a PC in a D&D game wants to be elected mayor of a town....there are no D&D rules for this. You take the books, rules and dice and just brush them off the table and Role Play the mayor's race. A RPG about becoming mayor would have each play taking 'campaign turns' and spending 'political points' to try and get the most 'vote points'. And the player with the most vote points gets to become mayor. Or in other words: have deeply detailed mechanical rules. D&D does do a sad toe dip from time to time into "other" stuff. Like a dumb rule of "oh just roll Charisma and the highest gets to be mayor". But that is nothing but fake gaming. Would you play D&D if combat was "oh just roll two d20, higher one wins the whole combat"? Guess I have to agree twice. I have long, long, long pushed the limits of D&Ds skills and abilities. I run a very detailed, very immersive game. A player makes a swashbuckling sailor, but with no rules support, they just play as themselves "whatever". I try hard to get such a player to use say preform for actions: they just don't get it. Though I also still use some ancient swashbuckling rules from Dragon to help out too. The big part here though is to take a step back from the game. The average player knows nothing about swashbuckling or sailing. Or even life before the 20th century. So, I make a big point to teach players. At least the ones willing to learn. I give them books to read and tv shows and movies to watch. And real history stuff too. This gives players a lot more tools too. This really is taking a big step back. This is where the "real" style comes in. My game is a fast paced unfair hard fun epic adventure. It's really the only type of game I mostly run. And I look for (or create) players just for this type of game. It's a very unique style: most other games are nothing like it. They ruined the Beholder 5E to make it super week, but the classic beholder (1-3E) encounter is a perfect example: Other games: The beholder uses telekinisis to throw a rock at a PC for 1d6 damage. And the beholder "randomly" targets The Tank with cause wounds for like 11 damage. Or the beholder tries sleep on a immune or high save character. My game: The most powerful looking spellcaster is distengerated: zap dead character. The 2nd most one is turned to stone. And the beholder has a magically poisoned thorn to shoot with telekinises. This is not a problem with the game. This is a problem with the DM. It is beyond easy to block nearly everything. And it's all right there in the rules. You just need a DM with the ability and will power to do so. And beyond the written rules...you have imagination. No "rules" cover everything....that is why a DM can imagine up things. D&D 5E core rules don't have 'time' spells. But say a player gets some. They try and do a Time Heist....and fail. Because the DM has thought of that and added in time defenses. So the DMs Protection from Time, smacks down the players idea. You just need a DM with the ability and will power to do so. NOTE: This is NOT to say no player can ever do anything ever in a game. It's saying the game NEVER "has to be" the DM just sitting there and watching the players Easy Button play and bypass everything in the game world True, D&D does not support this. But if it did it would need 500 pages and be another game. Of course, you can just Role Play. With no rules or system..... True, D&D does not support this. But if it did it would need 500 pages and be another game. Of course, you can just Role Play. With no rules or system..... Ok....agreed here. [/QUOTE]

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