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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 9244199" data-attributes="member: 5142">As you should know by now, the degree of freeform roleplaying really depends on the system and game. If we were playing a PbtA game, the game rules would generally not care about our freeform roleplaying for a myriad of things (e.g., climbing, talking, sneaking, etc.) until certain conditions are met by the actions of the PCs in the fiction that triggers a Move. These triggered conditions are when the rules demand a roll or a clarification of the fiction. Here I would note that there would be things here that you would potentially call for a roll in your game that a particular PbtA game may not care about and so no rolls are needed in the latter. So the rules are hypothetically getting in the way more often in your game than in a given PbtA game. For example, let's take a look at a few different PbtA games because the number of socially-oriented moves differ between them. Stonetop (a Dungeon World derivative) This is Persuade (vs. NPCs). There is a separate Move for Persuade (vs. PCs). Apart from some cases with moves Seek Insight or the Interfere Move, which is PC vs. PC, the two Persuade Moves are really the only basic social moves in the game. So what are the conditions in the fiction that have to be met in order to trigger this Move? (1) A PC has to press or entice an NPC and tell them what they want them to do (or not do). (2) The NPC has a reason to resist. So what if the first condition isn't met? We don't roll. What if the second condition isn't met? We don't roll. Let us say that both conditions are met. Then we roll. But let's also remember something about PbtA games. Something always happens when we roll. Nothing can't happen in these particular cases. Rolling comes with risk and danger of the GM making a hard move as a result of a poor roll. So "nothing" may happen when you roll a Persuasion check in D&D. That won't be the case in PbtA. So what can happen if we succeed on our best case scenario of a 10+ roll? The GM may decide that the NPC is persuaded by the PC; however, the PC is still not guaranteed that the NPC will do what they want. Instead, the NPC will reveal the easiest way to convince them. So this social situation becomes about the PCs gaining pertinent information and making choices on how they would like to proceed. How about in mixed result of 7-9 roll? In these cases, the NPC will reveal something the PCs can do to convince them; however, it will be costly, tricky, or distasateful. So again this is about giving the PCs information and choices about how to proceed in this social situation. And what about a 6- roll? It's GM hard move time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f608.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":devilish:" title="Devil    :devilish:"  data-smilie="29"data-shortname=":devilish:" /> Avatar Legends, in contrast, has more social moves than Stonetop. But it's a roleplaying game that is emulating Avatar: The Last Airbender and Avatar: Legend of Korra, which are both heavily social series where the social interactions between characters is the beating heart of the drama. In fact, most of the basic moves are social-oriented. Combat Exchanges have separate rules. Although we are talking about freeform social roleplay, I would note that Avatar Legends makes it clear when to do a Combat Exchange and when not! So there are a fair number of potential scenarios where the PCs can just narrate that they take out some guards with their bending or whatever. There is either no uncertainty in the former situation and/or it's not actually interesting. So no rolls or moves are called. It's freeform, baby! So what are the potential social situations that Avatar Legends cares enough about to trigger Moves? Assess a Situation (certain social occasions), Intimidate, Plead, Guide and Comfort, and Trick. But let's just take a look at Plead, which is probably the closest to Persuade (vs. NPC) from Stonetop. Avatar Legends So what conditions have to be met first before the rules get in the way? (1) The PC has to be pleading with an NPC for help, support, or action. (2) The NPC has to care what the PC thinks. What if the PC is pleading to an NPC for something other than help, support, or action? Don't roll. What if the NPC doesn't care what the PC thinks? Don't roll. What if the cost is small or insignificant? Don't roll. What if the NPC is already willing? Don't roll. These latter points are explicit in the explanation of this move: But again, let's say that we can Plead with the NPC. What happens then? We know that if there is a poor result with a 6- roll, then the GM is at their leisure to make a hard move. In our best case scenario of 10+, the NPC agrees to act now and do their best until the situation changes. So the game makes it clear that their support is not immutable. It just means that the friendly innkeeper will agree to hide you from the enemy Fire Nation troops for now, BUT if things go bad or complicated for that innkeeper, then they may change their mind and rescind that support. Or the friendly minor lord agreed to support you with some of their troops, but that was BEFORE your subsequent actions caused destruction in their town. Okay, but what happens on a 7-9 roll? It's much the same as Persuade (vs. NPC) in Stonetop. It's about the GM/NPC giving the PCs information, costs, and hard choices to make. The GM has to think of complications that may exist and honestly communicate that to the PCs. All of this must be roleplayed out. If we looked at other social-oriented Moves in Avatar Legends, there are likewise stipulations and conditions that first must be met. One can't just declare a move and roll to win. The important takeaway experience that I had actually playing these games - yes, actual play experience - I can say that it's nigh impossible not to roleplay in these games. These are fiction first games. You have to describe what your character is doing. You have to do things in the fiction. You have to roleplay. The moves are triggered when conditions are met. Yes, the rules may get in the way then, but those rules are there to arbitrate and facilitate these uncertain significant situations that the game cares about, clarify the stakes clear, bind the GM and players to honest roleplay, and keep the roleplay of the table moving. I'll posit that this argument reeks both of OneTrueWayism and BadWrongFun about TTRPGs and therefore we can safely say that it is baloney and thus be reasonably ignored. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f914.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":unsure:" title="Unsure    :unsure:"  data-smilie="24"data-shortname=":unsure:" /><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🧐" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f9d0.png" title="Face with monocle    :face_with_monocle:" data-shortname=":face_with_monocle:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></blockquote>

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