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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9244201" data-attributes="member: 22779">And yet, that's what survival genre games look like.&nbsp; You don't get to &quot;overcome&quot; that low level challenge.&nbsp; Because the &quot;low level challenge&quot; is meant to be a challenge.&nbsp; Not just a speedbump.&nbsp; The fact that you can overcome that survival challenge means that the system is not supporting that style of play.And, again, we're not limited to just one thing.&nbsp; There's a shopping list of spells, powers, whatnot, that make survival trivial.&nbsp; I look at my current group, for example - one Autognome Artificer, no need for food or water, can create items that create water (alchemy jug), plus various other survival bypassing abilites, one druid with a shopping list of abilities and spells that bypass and trivialize survival, one astral elf wizard with Leomund's Hut in his spellbook, meaning that an instant, 8 hour, indestructable house is a mere ten minutes away at any time plus three more PC's, all of which now coast on the backs of the other characters any time survival elements come up.&nbsp; Again, I point to something like Basic/Expert D&amp;D, where survival style games were very easy to do.&nbsp; Or Gamma World, which absolutely makes survival a major element of the game.&nbsp; Or Ironsworn, again, making survival a well supported play style.&nbsp; But 5e D&amp;D?&nbsp; Naw.&nbsp; Sorry, no.&nbsp; But, I know we're not going to agree here because we fundamentally aren't communicating.&nbsp; You are insisting that so long as you call something survival, then that's what it is, regardless of how many hoops the system makes you jump through.&nbsp; To me, if you have to rewrite the playstyle to fit the system, and then rewrite it again every few levels as you do in 5e D&amp;D&nbsp; (as well as a number of other D&amp;D editions), then no, D&amp;D does not support that playstyle.So, I don't think we can really go any further here.&nbsp; We're just talking past each other.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9244201, member: 22779"] And yet, that's what survival genre games look like. You don't get to "overcome" that low level challenge. Because the "low level challenge" is meant to be a challenge. Not just a speedbump. The fact that you can overcome that survival challenge means that the system is not supporting that style of play. And, again, we're not limited to just one thing. There's a shopping list of spells, powers, whatnot, that make survival trivial. I look at my current group, for example - one Autognome Artificer, no need for food or water, can create items that create water (alchemy jug), plus various other survival bypassing abilites, one druid with a shopping list of abilities and spells that bypass and trivialize survival, one astral elf wizard with Leomund's Hut in his spellbook, meaning that an instant, 8 hour, indestructable house is a mere ten minutes away at any time plus three more PC's, all of which now coast on the backs of the other characters any time survival elements come up. Again, I point to something like Basic/Expert D&D, where survival style games were very easy to do. Or Gamma World, which absolutely makes survival a major element of the game. Or Ironsworn, again, making survival a well supported play style. But 5e D&D? Naw. Sorry, no. But, I know we're not going to agree here because we fundamentally aren't communicating. You are insisting that so long as you call something survival, then that's what it is, regardless of how many hoops the system makes you jump through. To me, if you have to rewrite the playstyle to fit the system, and then rewrite it again every few levels as you do in 5e D&D (as well as a number of other D&D editions), then no, D&D does not support that playstyle. So, I don't think we can really go any further here. We're just talking past each other. [/QUOTE]

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