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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9246465" data-attributes="member: 22779">Umm, why are you presuming TSR?3e had pretty extensive skills.&nbsp; Considering that it was heavily influenced by Role Master, that's hardly surprising. Certainly far more extensive than 5e.&nbsp; Then you had stuff like the Affiliation rules in the PHB 2 - far more extensive than what we have in 5e for joining organizations.&nbsp; 4e had far more expansive skill systems than 5e.&nbsp;&nbsp; Even AD&amp;D had a system for determining loyalty of NPC hirelings and henchmen.&nbsp; Heck, they actually HAD rules for hirelings and henchmen beyond simple price lists.&nbsp; Never minding rules for stronghold building and followers.Then you have the domain management rules in BECMI.And that's just off the top of my head.In fact, 5e is about the only edition of D&amp;D to NOT have extensive systems for dealing with stuff outside of combat.Again, I'm not asking for this to be baked into the PHB.&nbsp; Not at all.&nbsp; But, it would be nice to actually have the OPTION of using more detailed systems than simply &quot;well, if you want to do this, you're basically going to have to free form the entire thing.&nbsp; Good luck!&quot;For some reason you are insisting that no one must ever have the option.&nbsp; I suppose that does fall in line with the notion that absent mechanics supports free form better.&nbsp; Because, apparently, if given the choice, no one free forms.&nbsp; Almost as if free forming is the least popular play style.&nbsp; No one actually wants to free form, but, since the gatekeepers of the hobby won't allow any other choices to be added to the game, I guess free forming it is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9246465, member: 22779"] Umm, why are you presuming TSR? 3e had pretty extensive skills. Considering that it was heavily influenced by Role Master, that's hardly surprising. Certainly far more extensive than 5e. Then you had stuff like the Affiliation rules in the PHB 2 - far more extensive than what we have in 5e for joining organizations. 4e had far more expansive skill systems than 5e. Even AD&D had a system for determining loyalty of NPC hirelings and henchmen. Heck, they actually HAD rules for hirelings and henchmen beyond simple price lists. Never minding rules for stronghold building and followers. Then you have the domain management rules in BECMI. And that's just off the top of my head. In fact, 5e is about the only edition of D&D to NOT have extensive systems for dealing with stuff outside of combat. Again, I'm not asking for this to be baked into the PHB. Not at all. But, it would be nice to actually have the OPTION of using more detailed systems than simply "well, if you want to do this, you're basically going to have to free form the entire thing. Good luck!" For some reason you are insisting that no one must ever have the option. I suppose that does fall in line with the notion that absent mechanics supports free form better. Because, apparently, if given the choice, no one free forms. Almost as if free forming is the least popular play style. No one actually wants to free form, but, since the gatekeepers of the hobby won't allow any other choices to be added to the game, I guess free forming it is. [/QUOTE]

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