Sub-races

[Sejs]

I'm kinda split on the issue. I like culturally different sub-races,.. so a gold dwarf is culturally different from a shield dwarf for example. Or a high elf and a wood elf. Or a (individual from calimshan) human and a dalelander human. That's just dandy,.. few minor tweaks to up-bringing type racial traits and you're off to the show.

What I dislike is statistically different sub-races. A primary example of this: Drow. I really dislike one sub-race being significantly more innately powerful then another sub-race. In my games, duergar have no innate invis and enlargement powers, drow have no spell resistance, and no innate lev or darkness. Nothing like that. A drow has the same stats as an elf, with the exceptions of: they get crossbow rather then normal bow prof. as a bonus feat, black skin, white hair, tendancy toward lawful evil alignment (opposite from their orig. chaotic good tendencies), and females have cleric as a favored class, rather then wizard.

So yeah,..
culturally different subraces? A-okay!
statistically / ECL different subraces? No thank you.


Edit: filter didn't like how I said something. fixed now.

 

[Benben]

What's everyone's opinion on sub-races? Do you like'em? Not? Do you wish humans had 'em? Do you wish nobody did?

Subraces make me uncomfortable when they are just attempting to implement cultural differences. I'm okay when used implement the huge physical differences, caused by supernatural interference.

High/ Grey elf distinctions make me uncomfortable; however a Elv/Avariel distinction is okay.

I like, and have stolen from, the FRCS region scheme for cultural differences.

 

[Sejs]

Right.. wrong button.

Sorry about the double post.

 

[arwink]

Don't mind them, but I think they need to be used sparingly. Very sparingly.

 

[Crothian]

They always seemed to be an excuse for more powerful version s of the orginal race. They usually have a hard time fitting into a world except in a very specific way, but players don't seem to understand that. If they were ever done in a good way I might like them, but until then they just don't cut it.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Don't mind them, but I think they need to be used sparingly. Very sparingly.

Agreed.

I like them to a point for humans. If you vary the base human type very slightly you can make cool nationalities. I think the Wheel of Time setting does this best. By extension, the same effect is achieved for demi-human races but the need is less in those cases because the demi-humans aren't human to begin with and thus in less need of differentiation (barring something like an all-elf campiagn or the like).

What I don't like is when the sub-race subtype gets wacky. Ghostwise haflings are a great example. They're so far removed from halflings you may as well invent a new race (e.g. kender).

 

[Eternalknight]

Why do you like them, then? Personally (since I didn't answer it) I like having subraces for options, but when it comes time to build a campaign world, I only pick one (at most two) and call it a day. For instance, I might decide that elves are really wood elves, not high elves, but that'd be the only kind of elves available in that case.

This is the way I do it. My campaign has Three types of Elf (Noble, forest and dark) and two dwarves (stone and hill). That is the limit, and there are cultural reasons why these are there.

 

[Sulimo]

I'm kinda split on the issue. I like culturally different sub-races,.. so a gold dwarf is culturally different from a shield dwarf for example. Or a high elf and a wood elf. Or a (individual from calimshan) human and a dalelander human. That's just dandy,.. few minor tweaks to up-bringing type racial traits and you're off to the show.

Coming from long years in MERP and Rolemaster I have to say I REALLY like sub-races, both human or otherwise.

 

[Desdichado]

Coming from long years in MERP and Rolemaster I have to say I REALLY like sub-races, both human or otherwise.

Yeah, I've thought of really toning down the differences -- leaving stat adjustments as they are, but tweaking the racial bonuses to skills to differentiate sub-races too. That gives a feel more like MERP, IMO. Then again, I liked very little about MERP, so that's not the reason I do that occasionally...

 

[Lurks-no-More]

I don't care for subraces, especially ones that seem to exist only for a games-mechanical point. Drow I can allow, since - despite having become horribly cliched lately - they can also be genuinely nasty.

Sejs' take of the drow looks good; I'd also swap darkvision for low-light vision, to allow them function more effectively underground.