Such Diversity

[joethelawyer]

So, I've been active here for maybe a year. Been playing D&D for maybe 25 yrs. Never played another RPG, other than a brief few month stint with MERP in the late 80's. I've played D&D with the same basic group of people most of those 25 yrs. My D&D experience is somewhat narrow, but longer than most (though not most here, it seems).

After being here a year, I am amazed at the diversity of opinions, views, likes, dislikes, prejudices, biases, breadth of RPG experiences, games styles, house rules, experiences, and on and on and on. Basically, I don't think there is a D&D gamer demographic that you can broadly stereotype for purposes of marketing and sales. The only thing I think most of us have in common, is that we eat chips and drink soda when playing. That, and we tend to be, on average, smarter than most people.

Tha being said, how does a game company develop a product with the goal of high sales in mind? Whats the middle-ground sweet spot in terms of style/approach they try to appeal to?

If there is no middle ground for broad appeal, what are the niche markets? For example, Goodman with the good old fashioned dungeon crawl, C&C with old school flavor, Paizo/Pathfinder for the 3.5 feel and adventure paths, 4e for a more tactical approach, etc.? Are the niche markets adequately represented by the various 3pp's? Are there others not identified and not satisfied?

If there is not a broad demographic for "gamer", specifically "D&D gamer", are there other ways to break us down?

Lets say I wanted to write an adventure module. If I do it because I like it, and do it in the style I like, it probably won't sell well. If I work for WOTC and am told to write a module to appeal to some sub-demographic, how do I even identify that group's likes and preferences?

There's ths idea out there of "The Great American Novel." Some people have called the Great Gatsby, or A Separate Peace the epitome of that Great American Novel. Whether you agree with those choices or not, at least most people think there is some sort of book that will appeal to most everyone.

I don't think that's the case for modules, or any other RPG product. I think we're too diverse a group with to many sub-demographics. I doubt there will ever, or could ever, be an RPG product published that will have 85% of the ENWorld members say "Holy Crap!!! That's one of the coolest things EVER!"

I don't really think I had a point to this post, other than to try and articulate what has been churning around in my head for a few weeks, and maybe start a discusion about it, if anyone is interested.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Tha being said, how does a game company develop a product with the goal of high sales in mind? Whats the middle-ground sweet spot in terms of style/approach they try to appeal to?

If there is no middle ground for broad appeal, what are the niche markets? For example, Goodman with the good old fashioned dungeon crawl, C&C with old school flavor, Paizo/Pathfinder for the 3.5 feel and adventure paths, 4e for a more tactical approach, etc.? Are the niche markets adequately represented by the various 3pp's? Are there others not identified and not satisfied?

For every type of gamer, there's a company that services their preferred style. Sure, there's always room for innovation and "taking things to the next level," but what I would do if I were seriously gearing up for another run at a gaming company is I would look at an existing system that is licensable and try to find a niche that needs to be filled.

Thanks to the fact that there was a publisher who wanted to work with me, I was able to identify a niche that needed to be filled with the True20 game - space opera. I wrote Reign of Discordia and when it went on sale, it became the first book in the True20 category to rank higher (for a time) than the core True20 rules (this has now been done a couple more times with Interface Zero and Shadows of Cthulhu). The publisher is calling RoD a quiet success because there are still people buying it, but there isn't a lot of chatter about it yet. However, the supplements we've put out so far have done well and we have a number of other books in the works to support it. Heck, the core book is still sitting at #5 in the True20 category.

I've also identified another niche where I think there's room for a game, but it isn't True20, and I'm not elaborating since there are so many eyes reading these forums, that niche would soon be filled!

I think Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics is an area where they saw a niche that could be filled and they created the perfect storm around it. When I think of DCC, I think of uncompromising 1st edition feel with adventures that are designed with the same goal as 1st edition - to get into the dungeon, kill monsters, and take their stuff. The presentation of everything about it is distinctly 1st edition from the choice of colors to the choice of text font, to the artwork that appears on the cover. There's a certain coolness factor just to have those things in with your collection, and they're always good for when you just need a fully fleshed out dungeon for a game sometime.

Honestly, I think the notion of trying to appeal to the masses is a lost cause. That has always been the role of D&D, and the masses haven't really been going for it in the same way they used to for the past few years. I think people are having too much fun playing other stuff.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I don't think things are as diverse in real life as they are on message boards. Message boards generally exclude the mass of casual players, which tend to be the primary audience for mainstream D&D. Niche players tend to be overrepresented.

 

[Scribble]

I don't drink soda.

I sometimes eat chips though, so I guess there is that...

 

[Fallen Seraph]

This is actually a reason why I am really gunho for having edition changes every say 8 years. Since it means that hopefully different niches of in this case D&D players will find their D&D.

 

[Darrin Drader]

This is actually a reason why I am really gunho for having edition changes every say 8 years. Since it means that hopefully different niches of in this case D&D players will find their D&D.

But the OGL makes it so that people don't have to wait 8 years to find a D&D-like game that appeals to them. Chances are, an RPG ideally suited to them already exists.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

But the OGL makes it so that people don't have to wait 8 years to find a D&D-like game that appeals to them. Chances are, an RPG ideally suited to them already exists.

The OGL still follows generally the basic principles of that edition however (note: could be horribly wrong, not much experience with OGL but I would assume this be the case). So as such, you wouldn't see the level of difference that you saw in say going from say 2nd with THACO to 3rd, and then 4th with Powers.

 

[Aus_Snow]

This is actually a reason why I am really gunho for having edition changes every say 8 years. Since it means that hopefully different niches of in this case D&D players will find their D&D.

Crap. My sarcasm meter is b0rken. . .

Because, on the face of it, waiting 8 (or 16, or 24. . .) years for a game you might like seems. . . well, a bit of a sorry tale, to be honest.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well I wouldn't assume they be just waiting, I am sure someone may be playing the current D&D or another game. But there is still the idea that with a coming edition it may be for that group of players a better experience for them and is what they would coin, "their edition". That is more what I am getting at when I say edition changes are good in the regard to diversity in the gaming population.

 

[Darrin Drader]

The OGL still follows generally the basic principles of that edition however (note: could be horribly wrong, not much experience with OGL but I would assume this be the case). So as such, you wouldn't see the level of difference that you saw in say going from say 2nd with THACO to 3rd, and then 4th with Powers.

That isn't exactly true. OSRIC is essentially 1st edition AD&D, but it's available through the OGL. How?

- game mechanics are not covered by copyright law.

- The OGL does not make any restrictions on what game mechanics can be used under the license.

- What the OGL does do is give people using it the right to use the intellectual property released as open content under the OGL.

- The OGL cannot be taken away.

What this means is that a really daring publisher could publish 4th edition material using monsters released as open under the 3E SRD but not the 4th ed GSL. DOING THIS MIGHT RESULT IN A LAWSUIT (though it is unlikely that WotC would win).

Also, this means that you can take the core d20 system and modify it to suit your ideal play style, use WotC IP, and release it under the OGL. You can really diverge greatly from D&D 3.5 and still do it under the OGL.