"Sudden" feats from Complete Arcane.

[Thanee]

You can't apply the same metamagic feat twice to the same spell.

Well, technically, it's not the same metamagic feat.

But I agree, that it should be treated that way.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jdvn1]

Well, technically, it's not the same metamagic feat.

But I agree, that it should be treated that way.

Bah, Thanee. Whatever.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well, technically, it's not the same metamagic feat.

But I agree, that it should be treated that way.

I don't agree. The rule is the rule: they are not the same metamagic feat, so they stack (course, I got annoyed when both Extend Extend went away AND buff spells went from one hour per level to one minute per level; talk about a double whammy on my wizards ).

 

[KarinsDad]

Whereas I think it falls under the "they were just being stupid and hyperreactive" catagory.

I've come to the conclusion that it is a feat for NPCs, not PCs. Even if a player wanted it that badly, he probably wouldn't survive to get it. :\

 

[green slime]

The prerequisites for Sudden Quicken are completely out of line. It just goes to show just how ill-thought out the entire collection of "Sudden Metamagic" is.

Why should it be that casting Sudden Quicken should require so much more feat-expenditure than Sudden Maximize? The only reason is because some lame designer felt it would be better balanced that way. Instead the result is a feat which will never be used, and is therefore completely useless, and is a complete waste of space.

 

[RigaMortus]

I don't agree. The rule is the rule: they are not the same metamagic feat, so they stack (course, I got annoyed when both Extend Extend went away AND buff spells went from one hour per level to one minute per level; talk about a double whammy on my wizards ).

Ya know, I just re-read it, and I think he's right. It technically is the same feat. Sudden Widen let's you use the Widen Spell feat but you do not have to modify the spell level. It is sort of like Cleave and Great Cleave... Great Cleave isn't really it's own feat. It modifies an exisiting feat (Cleave). It let's you use Cleave an unlimited amount of times (so long as you keep dropping people). This is why you can't Cleave and Great Cleave in the same round.

 

[KarinsDad]

Why should it be that casting Sudden Quicken should require so much more feat-expenditure than Sudden Maximize? The only reason is because some lame designer felt it would be better balanced that way. Instead the result is a feat which will never be used, and is therefore completely useless, and is a complete waste of space.

I think the reasons are there, but I agree that it is a bit overkill (and underkill in the case of Sudden Maximize).

There are very few high level xDy type spells at high level. So, Sudden Maximize basically might increase damage by about 80% for a few spells.

Quicken, on the other hand, can increase damage by 100% (i.e. you can cast the same damage spell twice). Not much more powerful than Sudden Maximize (and it uses two spells instead of one). However, Sudden Quicken can be applied to virtually every high level spell out there and it allows you to cast two spells in a round. That makes Sudden Quicken magnitudes more versatile (and slightly more powerful) than Sudden Maximize.

Sudden Quicken (IMO) is almost game breaking. I think the designers thought that way as well, hence, the arm long list of prerequisites.