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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 4134153" data-attributes="member: 51942">In the rest of this thread?&nbsp; I've played with DMM-Persist in play and have not had troubles, and I don't think anyone else mentioned concrete problems.&nbsp; If you find DMM-Persist troublesome, don't allow Sudden Persist.&nbsp; I think Sudden Persist is less likely to be troublesome, and certainly less risky, so I'd encourage players to use it instead, if this is really what they want.&nbsp; Then again, I don't think persist works particularly well anyhow, so I'd normally recomment they not use it at all, but if they really want it, sudden is less risky than DMM.That's not at all what I'm saying, quite the opposite.&nbsp; I tried to be extremely explicit that I'm not willing to allow &quot;new&quot; exploits.&nbsp; You may find that it's unfair that a wizard cannot use DMM-Persist but a cleric can... but my suggestion not to allow Sudden Persist to apply to anyone other than a cleric is hardly &quot;breaking it more&quot;.&nbsp; Quite the contrary - that's the whole point.I'm of the opposite school of thought.&nbsp; Characters that go nova are extremely annoying, since they either cake-walk everthing or they die.&nbsp; A player who wants a less spiky power curve is my friend.&nbsp; And I don't see clerics dominating any of my combats, currently - they're very powerful, but largely due to flexibility (like a wizard), and usually that's not a problem in-game in my experience (since they're not outgunning the rest, just earning eternal gratitude for the well-timed death ward...)Quicken is much more likely to break your game than persist.&nbsp; A player with DMM quicken instead of DMM persist can have all the same buffs as a persisting cleric for one combat, but then simply play that combat double-powered, quickening and perfoming melee buffed combat each round for quite a while.&nbsp; Persist looks twinked out, but it just can't even come close to that nova factor.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 4134153, member: 51942"] In the rest of this thread? I've played with DMM-Persist in play and have not had troubles, and I don't think anyone else mentioned concrete problems. If you find DMM-Persist troublesome, don't allow Sudden Persist. I think Sudden Persist is less likely to be troublesome, and certainly less risky, so I'd encourage players to use it instead, if this is really what they want. Then again, I don't think persist works particularly well anyhow, so I'd normally recomment they not use it at all, but if they really want it, sudden is less risky than DMM. That's [i]not at all[/i] what I'm saying, quite the opposite. I tried to be extremely explicit that I'm [i]not[/i] willing to allow "new" exploits. You may find that it's unfair that a wizard cannot use DMM-Persist but a cleric can... but my suggestion not to allow Sudden Persist to apply to anyone other than a cleric is hardly "breaking it more". Quite the contrary - that's the whole point. I'm of the opposite school of thought. Characters that go nova are extremely annoying, since they either cake-walk everthing or they die. A player who wants a less spiky power curve is my friend. And I don't see clerics dominating any of my combats, currently - they're very powerful, but largely due to flexibility (like a wizard), and usually that's not a problem in-game in my experience (since they're not outgunning the rest, just earning eternal gratitude for the well-timed death ward...) Quicken is much more likely to break your game than persist. A player with DMM quicken instead of DMM persist can have all the same buffs as a persisting cleric for one combat, but then simply play that combat double-powered, quickening and perfoming melee buffed combat [i]each round[/i] for quite a while. Persist looks twinked out, but it just can't even come close to that nova factor. [/QUOTE]

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