D&D 5E Suffocating

[pukunui]

How do you guys handle the rules for drowning/suffocating when monsters are involved? Do you allow characters to hold their breath, or do you rule that they are considered "out of breath" and thus only get their Con mod in rounds (rather than in minutes) before falling unconscious?

I ask because you have things like the rug of smothering, which has an ability that puts the target "at risk of suffocating". Since characters can hold their breath for quite a generous amount of time in this game, if you allow a target being smothered by a rug to hold their breath, it seems like they'd almost always either escape or simply be crushed to death before they suffocate. If, however, you rule that they can't hold their breath, then they'd get only 1-5 rounds before they automatically drop to 0 hp, regardless of how much bludgeoning damage they've taked from the rug.

Same goes for the water weird. It drags its victim underwater and tries to drown it. Would you let a creature grappled and submerged by a water weird hold its breath? Would you maybe give them a Con save to take a breath before they go under? Again, if you let the creature hold its breath, it seems like they'd succumb to their attacker's actual damage before drowning, if they aren't able to escape or be rescued, since we're talking a minimum of 10 rounds before the creature runs out of breath.

Another example is the sahuagin assassin, Ghald, from Princes of the Apocalypse. He has a garrote attack that says that the target can't breathe while grappled. Does that mean it can't hold its breath either? Has it only got its Con mod in rounds before it drops to 0 hp?

I find this element of the rules a bit confusing. If a creature can always just hold its breath, then there's not much point in trying to suffocate or drown a creature, because it'll take too long. On the other hand, having an ability automatically make it so you can't hold your breath could be seen as kind of unfair, in which case calling for a Con save to see if you can hold onto your breath while being strangled/smothered/drowned might be in order.

What do you guys reckon?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Tinker-TDC]

In HOTDQ an otyugh can grab a player and pull them under the water. In that encounter they try to bash the player against a wall and the player has to make (if I remember correctly) a concentration save (DC10 or half-damage taken, whatever's higher CON save) or have the wind knocked out of them. Having a 'hold your breath' check when you take damage seems like a good way to do that.

 

[Lancelot]

My general approach is that if the PC is prepared for the situation and is initiating the action (in which suffocation is relevant), they can hold their breath. If the action is forced upon them and/or they are unprepared for it, they cannot hold their breath and are immediately into the "Con Bonus" countdown. This strikes me as a good gaming compromise. It's a rare PC at my table that doesn't have 14 Con, which means they've got a couple of rounds to break free. Given 5e combat is pretty fast-paced, that creates some level of urgency while still not being "save-or-die".

In practice, this means that the PCs get minutes to survive a long swim underwater (if they are ready for it, and dive in of their own volition), or to escape a chamber that is slowly filling with gas (assuming they detect the gas before it overtakes the oxygen in the room), or if they're trying to avoid breathing in hallucinatory spores of some kind of mushroom (if they identify the fungus as harmful).

By contrast, they only get rounds to survive if they suddenly fall through a pit trap into a fully-submerged underground river tunnel, or to escape a chamber that is already mostly filled with gas (and they didn't realize it until they start choking), or if they are getting suffocated by any kind of monster attack.

Regardless of the situation above, I would never allow a minute's worth of breath-holding in a combat situation, even if the PC was fully prepared and "holding their breath" before it starts. I can, personally, hold my breath for a minute without problems... sitting at my desk or standing still. If I'm fighting for my life with sword-and-board, carrying 60 pounds of armor, ducking-and-weaving 10 meters every 6 seconds while also accurate striking and dodging, and taking solid wounding strikes in return... I'm not holding my breath for 60 seconds. I'd be surprised if I could do that for 15 seconds.

If nothing else, I'd expect to gasp on taking a hit from an enemy, or find my combat effectiveness diminished in some way. Conan the Barbarian, Bruce Lee and any number of tennis players always scream loudly when they make their "attacks". Breathing is an important part of any strenuous athletic activity, and I doubt combat is any different. If a player absolutely insisted they were holding their breath in a fight, regardless of consequences, I might allow them to last a minute or so... and be attacking at disadvantage for the entire period to represent the distraction of trying to limit their exertion.

 

[C-F-K]

My thought is that the "CON mod in minutes" rule applies to the moment a character dies. Brain damage has set in and the character is off to the eternal hack 'n slash field up in the sky.

holding your breath for even 1 minute is a skill most of us don't own. But our characters are above human, if we take 8 to 10 to be average a CON of 14 would be close to super human. But even then, a super-duper mega trained free-diver can hold his/her breath for around 6 minutes. He sinks for a while with weights, releases them and swims to the surface. And still that is nothing compared to what [MENTION=30022]Lancelot[/MENTION] described what characters have to endure.

I'd say, when your fighting, kicking and screaming, the rule should be CON mod in rounds, minimum of 1.

 

[Demorgus]

As a DM, I'd go with the ruling that the pc in a suffocating situation only has their con modifier (min of 1) of rounds before their hp drop to 0 and they die.

 

[wedgeski]

I think it would be pretty straightforward to say that the normal breath-holding rules apply, unless the PC is under duress (being attacked, being grappled, etc., at DM's discretion), at which point Con mod rounds comes into play, but I personally would allow a Con save to avoid ticking those rounds off. Any interruption to the distress being inflicted on the PC should also reset the counter.

I agree that suffocating isn't really a threat unless you do something like this, but for the love of Demogorgon, make sure your players are clear on the rules and be prepared for your group to use them against their enemies as well.

 

[feartheminotaur]

I use the standard rules. As others have pointed out, it would make sense to limit it to CON (minimum 1) due to duress, surprise, and so on. I understand the reasoning behind that, but even if that swayed me to change the rule, I wouldn't do it without making that interpretation ahead of the actual event and letting players know.

Overall I'm inclined to follow the rules as written since PCs can do all sorts of stuff that would be impossible under duress, and a taking a deep breath and holding it is so far down the list of "no way" that it doesn't seem necessary to change the rule.

 

[pukunui]

[MENTION=6801354]feartheminotaur[/MENTION]: If you always allow them to hold their breath, then they'll never really be in danger of drowning or suffocating unless you put them in a position where they can't easily escape or be rescued for several minutes, at which point it becomes more or less a useless rule.

 

[feartheminotaur]

So? I don't mean that flippantly, but in the sense of "yes, and...". It's useless rule in the context of round by round combat? Yeah, probably. But, so what. Don't use it in combat if you don't think it will appropriately challenge your players (site note: your "several minutes" assumes everyone has a hefty Constitution mod, which I wouldn't say is always the case).

Ultimately, I say "so what" because I don't think the rule was intended to be an in-combat danger. Now, as a rule to adjudicate being dragged beneath the waves? Or falling in quicksand? Being buried in an avalanche? A countdown to escape before being trapped in a flooding ruin kills you? That's the sort of thing it's useful for.

Not everything in this edition is instantly lethal in terms of rounds like the last two editions (and other games) have conditioned players to think. Plus, it's really, really hard to kill a PC outright. This is a game where a you can be thrown from a 100 foot cliff and survive - walk away, even. An 8th level fighter is in zero danger of dying (as per RAW) falling off a 100 foot cliff. That doesn't make falling damage rules useless as written anymore than a player with a high constitution score being in zero danger of being smothered in combat makes suffocation rules as written useless.

 

[pukunui]

Ultimately, I say "so what" because I don't think the rule was intended to be an in-combat danger.

Then why does the text for the rug of smothering state that the target is at risk of suffocating then? Why does the text for the water weird state that it tries to drown its target? Why does the text for Ghald's garrote attack state that the target can't breathe? At the very least, shouldn't suffocation be an in-combat danger when monsters like these are involved? Otherwise, what is the point of mentioning it in the monsters' statblocks?