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<blockquote data-quote="wayne62682" data-source="post: 3103199" data-attributes="member: 40455">No I do not, and thank you for pointing that out.&nbsp; I've never used either spell but I was aware of what they can do (only the basics of it, it would seem).If the acid looks like a pool of water and I have no reason to believe it's acid, then yes it is reasonable (as much as I as a player would want to strangle the DM and not do it, cries of metagaming be damned).&nbsp; If its bright green and bubbling and we're in a cave that has several such pools laying around, then its not reasonable (because Suggestion doesn't make you STUPID.&nbsp; Saying &quot;That pool over there looks refreshing, dive in&quot; when I've seen similar pools and know it to be acid is an unreasonable suggestion.).Fair enough, although I maintain you have to reasonably suspect that they've been replaced.&nbsp;&nbsp; If I've been within close range to them for several weeks, I would say this is borderline unreasonable because it doesn't make any sense that they would be replaced by dopplegangers when I was right next to them.&nbsp; And if the counter is that it could have happened before we met, it wouldn't be unreasonable but also wouldn't prompt me to take action against them since if they're dopplegangers, they haven't done anything to me so why would I care in the first place?Which still means that the spell ruins somebody's fun because of it forcing you with no way to shake the effects off.&nbsp; THAT is my main gripe with it, not the mechanics or semantics of how it operates.&nbsp; The spell gives you ONE saving throw, and if you fail it you're screwed completely because either you're going to suicide (jump into acid), or leave (&quot;They plan to betray you&quot;) or get killed/kill the party (&quot;They're really dopplegangers, kill them all&quot;) or any other number of game-wrecking consequences.&nbsp; At least as Infiniti2000 pointed out, Dominate allows you additional saves.&nbsp; Suggestion offers no such thing and IMO is far overpowered due to BEING a compulsion spell and thus changing the creature's nature (whereas Dominate cannot force you to go against your nature without offering additional saves) in the first place.I admit I am bitter, but I've seen campaigns come to a grinding halt and players be forced to retire characters prematurely because of this spell.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="wayne62682, post: 3103199, member: 40455"] No I do not, and thank you for pointing that out. I've never used either spell but I was aware of what they can do (only the basics of it, it would seem). If the acid looks like a pool of water and I have no reason to believe it's acid, then yes it is reasonable (as much as I as a player would want to strangle the DM and not do it, cries of metagaming be damned). If its bright green and bubbling and we're in a cave that has several such pools laying around, then its not reasonable (because Suggestion doesn't make you STUPID. Saying "That pool over there looks refreshing, dive in" when I've seen similar pools and know it to be acid is an unreasonable suggestion.). Fair enough, although I maintain you have to reasonably suspect that they've been replaced. If I've been within close range to them for several weeks, I would say this is borderline unreasonable because it doesn't make any sense that they would be replaced by dopplegangers when I was right next to them. And if the counter is that it could have happened before we met, it wouldn't be unreasonable but also wouldn't prompt me to take action against them since if they're dopplegangers, they haven't done anything to me so why would I care in the first place? Which still means that the spell ruins somebody's fun because of it forcing you with no way to shake the effects off. THAT is my main gripe with it, not the mechanics or semantics of how it operates. The spell gives you ONE saving throw, and if you fail it you're screwed completely because either you're going to suicide (jump into acid), or leave ("They plan to betray you") or get killed/kill the party ("They're really dopplegangers, kill them all") or any other number of game-wrecking consequences. At least as Infiniti2000 pointed out, Dominate allows you additional saves. Suggestion offers no such thing and IMO is far overpowered due to BEING a compulsion spell and thus changing the creature's nature (whereas Dominate cannot force you to go against your nature without offering additional saves) in the first place. I admit I am bitter, but I've seen campaigns come to a grinding halt and players be forced to retire characters prematurely because of this spell. [/QUOTE]

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