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Suggestion : Kill your ally.
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3105104" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>It's not telling a story. It's creating a story.</p><p></p><p>There is a significant difference.</p><p></p><p>If you want to have a story told to you, read a book or watch TV.</p><p></p><p>If you want to create a story, get 4 or more people around a table and play DND.</p><p></p><p>4 or more. Not 1.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that this happens. Players can make good logical roleplaying decisions without having to be overly disruptive to the DMs plotlines.</p><p></p><p>However, DMs also have to realize that PCs can and will go off in unforeseen directions, especially when roleplaying their PCs, and it is not the DMs job to force the PCs back to the plotline he created.</p><p></p><p>For example, I was in a game were we traveled to a "dungeon" and when we got inside, we got trapped. The players immediately attempted in every way to escape. The DM purposely put roadblocks in front of the PCs to prevent escape not because that is what he originally set up the dungeon to do, but rather because he wanted the players to explore every aspect of his wonderfully crafted dungeon.</p><p></p><p>As it turned out, there was quite a bit of conflict between the DM and the Players over this until the Players finally found a way out (there was a tower above the dungeon that the players ended up getting into and we widened an arrow slit until we could squeeze out). Once we had a viable escape route, we then went back to exploring the tower and dungeon. We went straight back to doing what the DM wanted us to do in the first place.</p><p></p><p>But until our goal of escape was met, it did not matter to us as players how well crafted the dungeon was. The goal of the PCs was to escape and that was what we were going to try to do. </p><p></p><p>This is also not a case of purposely being disruptive. It is a conflict between the adventure and the personality / roleplaying motivations of the PCs. The PCs do not know there is a "benevolent DM". They should react to environments in a reasonable manner for them.</p><p></p><p>And DMs should respect this. There is no "how things are SUPPOSED to be", there is only "how things become".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By definition, a storyteller is the one who fills in the gaps and adds depth.</p><p></p><p>The Dungeon Master adds to the overall story, but he is the world / adventure creator and a mediator, not a storyteller.</p><p></p><p>The scenario should be dynamic, not static.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I consider it peripherally on topic. When a DM makes an NPC be immune to a Suggestion spell not because he rolled the save and not because the suggestion was unreasonable, but because it disrupts the plans of the DM, then he is railroading the storyline.</p><p></p><p>This is not a reason to prevent the spell from working. The spell should work if it is reasonably worded and the NPC fails his save every time (shy of other intervening factors that were already present), <strong>just like any other spell</strong>.</p><p></p><p>Purposely preventing a Suggstion from working is no different than the PC casting Magic Missile and doing 10 points of damage when the NPC villain has 5 hit points remaining and the DM "pretends" that it did not really happen and the villain gets away.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 3105104, member: 2011"] It's not telling a story. It's creating a story. There is a significant difference. If you want to have a story told to you, read a book or watch TV. If you want to create a story, get 4 or more people around a table and play DND. 4 or more. Not 1. I agree that this happens. Players can make good logical roleplaying decisions without having to be overly disruptive to the DMs plotlines. However, DMs also have to realize that PCs can and will go off in unforeseen directions, especially when roleplaying their PCs, and it is not the DMs job to force the PCs back to the plotline he created. For example, I was in a game were we traveled to a "dungeon" and when we got inside, we got trapped. The players immediately attempted in every way to escape. The DM purposely put roadblocks in front of the PCs to prevent escape not because that is what he originally set up the dungeon to do, but rather because he wanted the players to explore every aspect of his wonderfully crafted dungeon. As it turned out, there was quite a bit of conflict between the DM and the Players over this until the Players finally found a way out (there was a tower above the dungeon that the players ended up getting into and we widened an arrow slit until we could squeeze out). Once we had a viable escape route, we then went back to exploring the tower and dungeon. We went straight back to doing what the DM wanted us to do in the first place. But until our goal of escape was met, it did not matter to us as players how well crafted the dungeon was. The goal of the PCs was to escape and that was what we were going to try to do. This is also not a case of purposely being disruptive. It is a conflict between the adventure and the personality / roleplaying motivations of the PCs. The PCs do not know there is a "benevolent DM". They should react to environments in a reasonable manner for them. And DMs should respect this. There is no "how things are SUPPOSED to be", there is only "how things become". By definition, a storyteller is the one who fills in the gaps and adds depth. The Dungeon Master adds to the overall story, but he is the world / adventure creator and a mediator, not a storyteller. The scenario should be dynamic, not static. I consider it peripherally on topic. When a DM makes an NPC be immune to a Suggestion spell not because he rolled the save and not because the suggestion was unreasonable, but because it disrupts the plans of the DM, then he is railroading the storyline. This is not a reason to prevent the spell from working. The spell should work if it is reasonably worded and the NPC fails his save every time (shy of other intervening factors that were already present), [b]just like any other spell[/b]. Purposely preventing a Suggstion from working is no different than the PC casting Magic Missile and doing 10 points of damage when the NPC villain has 5 hit points remaining and the DM "pretends" that it did not really happen and the villain gets away. [/QUOTE]
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