Suggestions for an archer

[Bauglir]

I'm making up an archer character to play in City of the Spider Queen. Powergaming is pretty much the norm for this group (I'm expecting to have to keep up with 1, maybe 2 frenzied berzerkers in terms of effectiveness) so go nuts .

Stats are 18, 18, 16, 14, 10 8 (Assign, no point buy)

Here's what I have so far:

Race: Elf

Starting stats: str10/dex20/con14/int14/wis18/cha8

(DWS=Deepwood Sniper, OoBI = Order of the Bow Initiate, Peerless = Peerless Archer)

1 Fighter1 Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
2 Fighter2 Weapon Focus: Comp Longbow
3 Fighter3 Far Shot
4 Fighter4 Weapon Specialization: Comp Longbow, +1 dex
5 Fighter5
6 DWS1 Precise Shot
7 DWS2
8 Oobi1 +2 dex
9 Oobi2 Manyshot
10 Oobi3
11 Oobi4
12 Oobi5 Zen Archery, +3 dex
13 Oobi6
14 Oobi7
15 Oobi8 QuickDraw
16 Oobi9 +4 dex
17 Oobi10
18 Peerless1 Improved Critical: Comp Longbow
19 Peerless2
20 Peerless3 +5 dex

The character will be starting off at 10th level, for starting equipment I went for:
Bracers of Archery
Composite Longbow +2 screaming
Mithril Chain Shirt +2 light fortitude
Gloves of Dexterity +2
Cloak of Resistance +3
Bag of Holding (type 1) - To hold all the arrows (padded inside to prevent ruptures)
Buckler & Longsword (non-magical)

I know another player will be making a cleric (and he tends to memorise plenty of buffs normally) so I think access to GMW won't be a problem.

So, does anyone have any comments or suggestions?

 

[Gaiden]

How about a Ranger3/Cleric3/PA3/DWSX. This will give you access to true strike (for the bow that has it as a spell trigger) and hunter's mercy - FRCS spell for rangers. You only lose 1 AB and can take elf as a domain to give you PBS for free. You'll need a wand of true stike (if you don't get the bow) and hunter's mercy which will cost all of 1500 gp. Everything else is gravy. Those power shooting true strikes are really going to hurt. Oh and one more thing, you can take shevarish as your god (works really well for RP given the adventure is CotSQ) and take retribution domain. Let those drow hit you with a hand crossbow bolt and unleash a max damage crit the next round with powershot. At 11th level that will be somewhere around smackdown range if you are maxed out.

 

[drdevoid]

I played a character with a very similar build and it was incredibly powerful. I actually felt a little bit bad about it. If you stick to that you should be a force to be reckoned with. Here's my thoughts and tweaks:

Make sure Manyshot is worth it. I don't think you can use it with rapid shot (without being hasted) and the lack of bonus precision based damage (sneak attack/favored enemy/crit dmg) makes it less desirable than it initially seems to me.

I'm not crunching the numbers here- do you need that high Int to meet the PrC skill reqs? If not you may want to consider going Wood Elf.

While on the subject of race, consider applying the Celestial Template (LA +2, I believe) for acid, cold, electricity resistance -5 and scaling smite evil (based on HD rather than class level like Paladins and Destruction Clerics). Extra Smite and Power Critical becomes a good combo then. This does further slow your PrC qualification. Another downside is that I think this would make you start out as an eigth level character for purposes of wealth.

I would take a cleric level. In FRCS I think Solondir has the War (which grants weapon focus: comp longbow) and Elf (grants PBS) domains which is the traditional FRCS cleric archer build. The elf domain granting the "True Strike" spell at first level is a great bonus. Your turning ability becomes a write off unless you include some rule involving cooperative cleric joint turning but the healing spells make you more sufficient. A cleric level will slow the qualifying for your PrCs by a level, though, so if you do this take an extra cleric level or multiclass (Ranger?) in to something else since 5th level fighter gives you nothing but HD and skills.

The net gain is 1 feat, useful spells and +2 will bonus in place of 1 point of BAB and a less physical skill base.

There was a 3rd party supplement somewhere (an AEG one, I believe) that recommended allowing a swap out of the Ranger TWF for archery feats (keeping the light or no armor stipulation of course). If allowed it's an alternative to the cleric build that has obvious merits as well namely better fortitude and more skills. Used in conjunction it gets rid of the superflous 5th fighter level where you get nothing and nets you 3 feats, +4 Fort, +2 Will, spells and skills.

Either way you net 1 or 3 extra feats (or 4 provided you ditch manyshot). I would recommend improved initiative (for more OotBi sneak attacks via always going first. You may also want to swap out the screaming weapon ability for boots of elvenkind for suprise sneak attacks.) Other options are obvious but here they are anyway:

-Combat Reflexes
-Weapon Focus/Specialization (with your melee weapon)
-Dragon mag archery feats (now in Complete Warrior- Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, etc.)
-Luck of Heroes (if you are from that region)
-Other save feats
-Dodge/Mobility/Shot on the Run
-Expertise (perhaps Improved Disarm)
-Get Quick Draw earlier
-power critical (S&F)
-favored critical (MotW- this will only really help your melee weapons)

If you get quick draw and combat reflexes early on, I recommend getting a longspear, glaive or ranseur (to disarm) as well. You can use your reach to flank or keep enemies at bay and then drop it draw your longsword after you've gotten an AoO if they engage you.

I like your item selection. You may want to consider a +1 screaming and shocking bow if you have regular GMW access. The maiming ability from Mini Handbook is interesting as well (roll your crit modifier x2 = 1d4 x3 = 1d6 x4 = 1d8. +1 ability).

Other options are to lower your bow to a +1 screaming weapon, replace the bag of holding for both a Heward's Handy Haversack and Efficient Quiver (aka Quiver of Ehlonna) and/or lower your cloak of resistance (especially if you take Luck of Heroes). This gives you extra cash to consider other items:

-Silent Moves armor (if the cleric is super nice, he could pimp you out with Magic Vestment and you could pile on more armor/shield abilities)
-Boots of Elvenkind
-Boots of Speed
-Amulet of Natural Armor +1
-Ring of Protection +1
-Wands
-+1 bucker

Check over at the WotC Min/Max boards too, some of those guys are impressive.

Hope that helps,
Joe

 

[Bauglir]

Yeah, an int of at least 12 is required to meet the skill requirements for the various PrCs (need 4 ranks in 3 skills for DWS, all cross class to a fighter - can be done with 5 fighter levels either if the char is human or has an int of at least 12)

I considered a level of monk actually at level 5, as I intend to boost wisdom as and when I can afford it. (for Zen Archery) As an elf though I would suffer a 40% XP penalty by going ftr4/mnk1 - same with cleric so that's not really an option. At least 4 levels of fighter are required to gain Weapon Specialization, which is a prerequisite for OoBI so the ranger option's out as well.

I'm not really familiar with the various elf subraces (sun-elf etc.) Is there perhaps one that fits the character better than the basic PHB elf? (What was that winged elf from AEG's Mercenaries? - they were quite cool)

You don't rate manyshot all that highly - perhaps improved init, or shot on the run would be a better choice? (Manyshot is just about the only feat in there that isn't a prerequisite for something ). IDHTBIFOM - I assume shot on the run is spring attack for bows.. On the other hand when the oobi zen archery kicks in I will have the attack bonus to spare, so manyshot may really come into its own.

As regards GMW access, while I feel fairly confident that I can get a GMW for my arrows, I think that it would be asking too much for the cleric to give up 2 of his 4th level spells to get the bow GMW'd as well. I think if I was going to drop the base to +1 I'd go for +1 holy..

On the stealth aspect the char currently has a +14ish hide and move silently skill, as I poured points into it from all the classes (cross class in some cases). I may look into items to help with this if it doesn't prove to be enough

ATM the bow fires with +22/+17 (+20/+20/+15 using RS) for 1d8+5+1d6(sonic) damage (19-20/x4). This seems pretty decent to me (although alongside frenzied zerks...)

Actually - if I drop the bonus on the armour to +1 LF, I can get a +2 enhancement on the buckler and end up 1000G better off... (as well as 1 pt of AC) *does that*

Thanks for your feedback

 

[Gaiden]

Yeah, an int of at least 12 is required to meet the skill requirements for the various PrCs (need 4 ranks in 3 skills for DWS, all cross class to a fighter - can be done with 5 fighter levels either if the char is human or has an int of at least 12)

I considered a level of monk actually at level 5, as I intend to boost wisdom as and when I can afford it. (for Zen Archery) As an elf though I would suffer a 40% XP penalty by going ftr4/mnk1 - same with cleric so that's not really an option. At least 4 levels of fighter are required to gain Weapon Specialization, which is a prerequisite for OoBI so the ranger option's out as well.

I'm not really familiar with the various elf subraces (sun-elf etc.) Is there perhaps one that fits the character better than the basic PHB elf? (What was that winged elf from AEG's Mercenaries? - they were quite cool)

You don't rate manyshot all that highly - perhaps improved init, or shot on the run would be a better choice? (Manyshot is just about the only feat in there that isn't a prerequisite for something ). IDHTBIFOM - I assume shot on the run is spring attack for bows.. On the other hand when the oobi zen archery kicks in I will have the attack bonus to spare, so manyshot may really come into its own.

As regards GMW access, while I feel fairly confident that I can get a GMW for my arrows, I think that it would be asking too much for the cleric to give up 2 of his 4th level spells to get the bow GMW'd as well. I think if I was going to drop the base to +1 I'd go for +1 holy..

On the stealth aspect the char currently has a +14ish hide and move silently skill, as I poured points into it from all the classes (cross class in some cases). I may look into items to help with this if it doesn't prove to be enough

ATM the bow fires with +22/+17 (+20/+20/+15 using RS) for 1d8+5+1d6(sonic) damage (19-20/x4). This seems pretty decent to me (although alongside frenzied zerks...)

Actually - if I drop the bonus on the armour to +1 LF, I can get a +2 enhancement on the buckler and end up 1000G better off... (as well as 1 pt of AC) *does that*

Thanks for your feedback

I'm telling you, go ranger/cleric .

You will have a +3 bab (ranger) +2 bab (cleric) +5 bab (PrC) +6 (using your suggested dex) +1 WF +2 BoA +2 (cat's grace) = +21/+16. If you are concerned about not having C'sG for all battles, just get a wand of cat's grace. With two casting's of GMW your attack is now at +25/+20. You have access to aid (for another +1 to hit) and you can cast owl's wisdom if you really want to get zen archery with OotBI.

Your damage will be 1d8+9 (no different than before) and you have far more skill points. Win PBS and WF available from domains, and RS available from Ranger, you are netting the same number of feats. However, you get Track, Endurance, true strike (unbelievably amazing with power shot), you'll probably get around 4 1st level cleric spells and 3 2nd. Your saves are much better. You can have wands of hunter's mercy, camoflauge, cure light wounds, true strike, long strider, etc.

(If you hadn't guessed, I have a character who has followed this precise path. He is an NPC elf who started out with Dungeon's "The Raider's of Galath's Roost" who saw his brother (elven paladin) killed by drow. Since then he left his passion for the outdoors in the pursuit of vengeance in the form of worship of Shevarish. He is in the process of applying for a position as a sniper for the Cormanthor elves (those that still remain) and I have plans for him to disobey orders in pursuit of his vengeance ultimately getting him kicked out of the organization which will bring him North to the Silver Marches (where he will join the Peerless Archers).

 

[Darklone]

I'd reassign the stats and go for elven archer cleric.

 

[Bauglir]

Sorry I didn't get back to you last night Gaiden but it was late and I was tired

I've actually played a similarish build to that in the past (in my case cleric9/rogue 11) but I have a tendancy to play spellcasters a lot (what can I say I like sorcerers ) so I'm looking at non-caster builds for the sake of variety (also taking some nifty PrCs for a spin )

Cheers

 

[Gaiden]

Sorry I didn't get back to you last night Gaiden but it was late and I was tired

I've actually played a similarish build to that in the past (in my case cleric9/rogue 11) but I have a tendancy to play spellcasters a lot (what can I say I like sorcerers ) so I'm looking at non-caster builds for the sake of variety (also taking some nifty PrCs for a spin )

Cheers

Cool. Well have fun with the character. I would consider getting a pearl of power for the cleric so he can cast the extra GMW for you. I think it's cheaper than your magic bow.

 

[James McMurray]

IS this 3.0 or 3.5? If its 3.5 there's no real reason to GMW both the bow and the arrows, because the bonuses no longer stack. If that's the case, definitely go to +1 and Holy, as just about everything you ever face will be evil. Get at least 10 elf bane arrows as well, to help in disrupting spellcasters.

Don't drop Manyshot. Although it isn't something you'll use every combat, in those instances when you do ue it, it'll be amazing. For instance, when you reay to disrupt that Drow Priestess's Flame Strike you'll get to hit her twice instead of just once. That means you'll have a much better chane of disrupting her.

Definitely take a look at Ranged Disarm and/or Ranged Pin and/or Ranged Sunder in CW. All are very nice feats (wth ranged pin being perhaps the weakest). I would at least drop quickdraw for one of those (disarm being my favorite). By 15th level you can easily get a glove of storing for swapping between melee and ranged.

 

[Gaiden]

Definitely take a look at Ranged Disarm and/or Ranged Pin and/or Ranged Sunder in CW. All are very nice feats (wth ranged pin being perhaps the weakest). I would at least drop quickdraw for one of those (disarm being my favorite). By 15th level you can easily get a glove of storing for swapping between melee and ranged.

QD is a prereq for PA.