Suggestions for epic level books?

[ChimericDream]

Since the pdfs release I have come into contact with people who game at that sort of level (including one group who game above that level - I kid you not) as well as a few others who have indirectly used it in various capacities.

If you're still in communication with any of those groups, I'd be interested to see just what their character sheet looked like! I imagine a character of level ~10,000 just wouldn't be much fun to play. There aren't any surprises at that level.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey muzick!

If you're still in communication with any of those groups, I'd be interested to see just what their character sheet looked like! I imagine a character of level ~10,000 just wouldn't be much fun to play. There aren't any surprises at that level.

Here is the website of one of the groups.

http://www.smileylich.com/dnd/collective/index.html

I don't think they are necessarily playing 3rd Edition straight out of the book, its more an amalgam of different systems coupled with their own house rules.

 

[Eolin]

At level 1000+, (or even 100+), is there a good reason not have 9th level spells of a multitude of progessions?

like, 20th level cleric/20th level wizard/whatever else ...

I've never played at those levels, so perhaps there is some obvious responce -- but why not do that?

 

[ChimericDream]

Here is the website of one of the groups.

http://www.smileylich.com/dnd/collective/index.html

I don't think they are necessarily playing 3rd Edition straight out of the book, its more an amalgam of different systems coupled with their own house rules.

I'm not seeing any character sheets on that site. I'm not sure if I am just overlooking them, or if they don't have any characters posted there, but thanks for the link anyway.

 

[IceFractal]

Well, the fact that the main realm that they travel through to reach different multiverses has an atmosphere made of Sphere of Annihilation material does seem like a hint that they're playing pretty high level.

But man, I don't know if I could make a level 100 character - making a level 20 one already takes a fair amount of time and planning. Of course, I guess you don't need to optimize much with 1000 levels, and wealth that requires scientific notation. Do most super-high-level games start at that level, or start at lower level and advance really fast?


And how do you figure out what the "average" power of a level 100 character is? Even level 20 characters vary widely. At level 100, you could have pretty much every optimized ability ever discovered compressed into one character, or conversely, you could be a straight Fighter 100, with Epic Toughness taken for every feat after 30th level, and all your money in a sword with a really massive bonus.

Not are those characters not on the same page as eachother, they're not even in the same book! Heck, they're in entirely different bookcases, located in separate buildings. So where's the baseline?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Eolin!

At level 1000+, (or even 100+), is there a good reason not have 9th level spells of a multitude of progessions?

like, 20th level cleric/20th level wizard/whatever else ...

I've never played at those levels, so perhaps there is some obvious responce -- but why not do that?

Well (taking the rules literally) the first problem you will run into is that of spell penetration. Since you will still be fighting ever more powerful opponents (with higher and higher spell resistance - in all likelihood), yet your spell penetration is going to stall if you keep mult-classing.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya Muzick!

I'm not seeing any character sheets on that site. I'm not sure if I am just overlooking them, or if they don't have any characters posted there, but thanks for the link anyway.

Your welcome.

I don't know if they have character sheets posted on the site. Next time I see one of the guys on msn I'll ask him.

 

[Job]

Some folks consider it way over the top, but you might also consider looking at the http://community.dicefreaks.com/ bulletin board. You'll find a wealth of information regarding epic level treatments of devils, legends, and even the standard gods. They've spent a lot of effort balancing the abilities, feats, levels, and backgrounds. I use their work as an epic level reference.

Job.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy IceFractal!

Well, the fact that the main realm that they travel through to reach different multiverses has an atmosphere made of Sphere of Annihilation material does seem like a hint that they're playing pretty high level.

But man, I don't know if I could make a level 100 character - making a level 20 one already takes a fair amount of time and planning. Of course, I guess you don't need to optimize much with 1000 levels, and wealth that requires scientific notation.

Thats something I have been working to keep to an absolute minimum, the book-keeping.

To that end a few of the changes I have instagated include.

- Artifact Rules: Epic/Immortal players get four artifacts/epic items which grow in power as they do. This removes the need for wealth tables. They can still have other non-epic items, but these are likely to get either get wiped (disjunction) or simply rendered irrelevant (anti-magic).

- New Spell Progression: Using Automatic Metamagic Capacity* feats. This replaces the ridiculously time consuming (Improved Spellcasting) official rules.

* http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff9.htm

- Metamartial Maneouvers: Revolutionizes combat to the point where you could theoretically remove feats altogether. However, coupled with feats it means you can basically remove anything that doesn't give a flat bonus.

- Feat Packages/Divine Abilities: More powerful abilities cut down on the number of feats.

e.g. Instead of having 30 feats to pick you could choose 4 divine abilities and 6 feats.

- Omnicompetence/Maven: (two of those aforementioned divine abilities) Know all skills and gain maximum ranks in all known skills.

Do most super-high-level games start at that level, or start at lower level and advance really fast?

I'd hope it was the latter, but I suspect its a mix of both.

And how do you figure out what the "average" power of a level 100 character is? Even level 20 characters vary widely. At level 100, you could have pretty much every optimized ability ever discovered compressed into one character, or conversely, you could be a straight Fighter 100, with Epic Toughness taken for every feat after 30th level, and all your money in a sword with a really massive bonus.

Not are those characters not on the same page as eachother, they're not even in the same book! Heck, they're in entirely different bookcases, located in separate buildings. So where's the baseline?

I think thats a matter for individual campaigns. Naiveity (of character design) versus potential min/maxing.

 

[Fieari]

Which reminds me, I should get back to work on converting The Throne of Orcus (the ECL 100 adventure)...

Anyone want to help out? Need more stuff statted out here: http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Throne_of_Orcus_conversion