summary, differences, 4th and Saga Edition

[CapnZapp]

Hi,

I've been looking for a summary of the differences between Star Wars Saga Edition and D&D 4th Edition, but google only came up with a bunch of "Saga as D&D preview" sites, whose content was speculation on the forthcoming D&D game.

What I am looking for now, with the completed game out since months, is facts!

Any pointers would be appreciated,
Zapp

PS. Feel free to move this to a more appropriate forum, but I couldn't find a better than this one, as my question definitely is focused on rules.

 

[Staffan]

The differences are numerous. It's easier to list the similarities, I think.

• Skills work pretty much the same way, except Int doesn't affect number of trained skills in 4e and Skill Focus is +5 in Saga and +3 in 4e.
• Force powers being encounter-based are similar to the encounter powers of 4e.
• Static defenses the attacker has to roll to hit as opposed to saving throws the defender uses to avoid attacks.
• Level/2 being used as a modifier to most checks.
• Mostly limited to a single attack per round, with a few exceptions.
• A big hp boost at level 1, though in different fashions.
• HP being mostly a daily thing as opposed to having very slow natural healing.

Those are the ones I can think of off-hand. The class system in Saga, which arguably forms the core of the system, is very different from 4e. The closest similarity is d20 Modern - both are based on choosing class abilities (talents) from a list, and alternating those talents with bonus feats.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you.

I am certainly not looking for a exhaustive list of changes, that would only get in the way. I'm looking at the broader question. Perhaps I could rephrase my question:

Which important features / sub-systems of 4E isn't in Saga? (and thus new inventions)
Which important features / sub-systems of Saga isn't in 4E? (not making the cut for whatever reason)

As I said, those speculation pages all labeled Saga a step towards 4th Ed. I would like to form myself an opinion how far a long the path from 3rd edition/d20 Saga is; what it can contribute that 4E can't and similar questions.

Cheers!

 

[Obryn]

The differences are numerous. It's easier to list the similarities, I think.

• Skills work pretty much the same way, except Int doesn't affect number of trained skills in 4e and Skill Focus is +5 in Saga and +3 in 4e.
• Force powers being encounter-based are similar to the encounter powers of 4e.
• Static defenses the attacker has to roll to hit as opposed to saving throws the defender uses to avoid attacks.
• Level/2 being used as a modifier to most checks.
• Mostly limited to a single attack per round, with a few exceptions.
• A big hp boost at level 1, though in different fashions.
• HP being mostly a daily thing as opposed to having very slow natural healing.

Those are the ones I can think of off-hand. The class system in Saga, which arguably forms the core of the system, is very different from 4e. The closest similarity is d20 Modern - both are based on choosing class abilities (talents) from a list, and alternating those talents with bonus feats.

I'd say first off that, IME, it takes more than a full day to get back your full complement of HPs. Healing is quite limited, and long-term care requires either expensive medpacs or bacta treatment.

Another biggie is that SWSE doesn't have Armor Class - it only has Reflex, and either Armor or Level modify the Reflex Defense unless you optimize your character for armor.

Heroic characters get bonuses to weapon damage equal to 1/2 their level.

Characters have class-based BAB, but there's only Full vs. 3/4. There is no 1/2 BAB.

There are full-round actions, and many actions take multiple "Swift" actions.

Characters have a condition track in addition to HPs. The condition track can be degraded through powerful hits, by character abilities, or by Stun weapons. It operates as a flat penalty to all rolls & defenses, and at the bottom of the track, a character goes unconscious.

-O

 

[RigaMortus2]

Thank you.

I am certainly not looking for a exhaustive list of changes, that would only get in the way. I'm looking at the broader question. Perhaps I could rephrase my question:

Which important features / sub-systems of 4E isn't in Saga? (and thus new inventions)

I think the biggest one is Powers. 4E has powers, Saga does not.

Also, multiclassing. Saga you can multiclass freely, much like d20 Modern or even D&D 3E. In 4E, multiclassing is MUCH different, and most would say it isn't true multiclassing, its just "dabbling" in a second class. And that is the other distinction, you can only multiclass into a second class in 4E. In Saga and in 3E you could tack on umpteen classes to build your character, but not in 4E.

Which important features / sub-systems of Saga isn't in 4E? (not making the cut for whatever reason)

Cheers!

Can't think of one really. I guess I would maybe say the Piloting of ships in Saga, and using mounts in Saga. In 4E, there isn't much of a mounted combat system. Its there, just not expanded upon or really encouraged.

Also, the Force (ie the Star Wars "magic" system if you will) is skill based. You make a Use the Force skill check. In 4E, spells and exploits (exploits being the name they gave martial powers) are not skill based. They are powers that utitize attack vs defense (not skill check vs defense like in Saga). I think this is a good thing, as it is usually a lot easier to raise skills than it is to raise attack boni.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Which important features / sub-systems of Saga isn't in 4E? (not making the cut for whatever reason)

Free multiclassing
Talents
Half level added to damage with all weapons

 

[Oldtimer]

Which important features / sub-systems of Saga isn't in 4E? (not making the cut for whatever reason)

The Condition Track.

 

[MarkB]

The Condition Track.

And its associated feature, the Damage Threshold. Likewise, 4e's healing surges and death saves are absent from Saga, though it does include the Second Wind concept.

Also, Saga still included some remnants of a Full Round Attack concept, which was eliminated entirely in 4e.

 

[Dragonbait]

Which important features / sub-systems of Saga isn't in 4E? (not making the cut for whatever reason)

SAGA has Force Points that can be used to save a person from getting hit. D&D has Action Points, but they work very differently and can not be used to save someone's life and avoid an attack or garuntee a crit (I'm rusty on what exactl FPs can do, but I remember three key abilities of them).

 

[Plane Sailing]

4e has at-will, encounter and daily powers.

Saga just has encounter powers (and they can be regained more easily during combat too)