Summon Monster IX vs. Gate

The basic problem is that in 3rd Edition, they added the ability to automatically control the creature called through the gate. In all previous editions of D&D, creatures coming through a gate were always self-willed and hence both very useful and very dangerous (and the caster also had to know the personal name of the individual creature). The designers of this edition decided to make it safer for PCs to use (like a lot of things), but in so doing made it unbalanced compared to the summoning spells.
 
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Well, IMC we have given Gate a 10 minute casting time, amongst other changes, so it isn't likely to be used as a battle spell.

But I guess 1000 xp would do the trick as well... ;)
 


LordAO said:


Gate has no such size limitation. It will automatically size itself to fit the creature you summon. Only the persistent gate has a set size.

Gate

Conjuration (Creation, Calling)
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: See text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection between the character's plane of existence and the plane desired, allowing travel between the planes in either direction. Second, the character may then call a particular individual or type of being through the gate. The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster’s choice), oriented in the direction the character desires when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing the character). It is a two-dimensional window into the plane the character named, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side. The gate has a front and a back. Creatures moving through the gate from the front are transported to another plane; creatures moving through it from the back are not.

Planar Travel: As a mode of planar travel, gate functions much like the plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point the character desires (a creation effect). Note that deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in their presence or personal demesnes if they so desire. Travelers need not join hands with the character—anyone who chooses to step through the portal is transported. A gate cannot be opened to another point on the same plane; the spell works only for interplanar travel.

The character may hold the gate open only for a brief time (no more than 1 round per caster level) and must concentrate on doing so or sever the interplanar connection.

Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to the character's aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or type of being as the character cast the spell, the character may cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures.

If the character chooses to call a type of being instead of a known individual the character may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. If several creatures, the character can call and control them as long as their HD total does not exceed the character's caster level. In the case of a single creature, the character can control it if its HD does not exceed twice the character's caster level. A single creature with more than twice the character's caster level in HD can’t be controlled. Deities and unique beings cannot be controlled in any event. An uncontrolled being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An uncontrolled being may return to its home plane at any time.

A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for the character. These fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for the character in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; the character need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

If the character chooses to exact a longer or more involved form of service from the called creature, the character must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward. In general, a gift of 100 gp per HD of the called creature per day of service is reasonable. (Unfortunately, some creatures want their payment in "livestock" rather than in coin, which may involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to the character's vicinity, and the character must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.

Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in the character's being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack the character.

Note: When the character uses a calling spell such as gate to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it becomes a spell of that type. For example, gate is a chaotic and evil spell when the character casts it to call a demon.

You'll notice the size is detailed in the top paragraph, before the spell description breaks up into separate uses. Regardless of whether it's used for planar travel or summoning it can still only be 5-20ft in diameter.
 

Summon Monster doesn't call up individual creatures (unless you use those rules) - it basically summons a copy of the creature type. So you don't whistle up Grashnak Bloodgullet the Fiendish Orc.. you just get A Fiendish Orc. When the spell duration runs out, the creature goes poof. If they're killed.. no worries, nothing actually died. You didn't just deprive some fiendish orc children somewhere of their father. When you cast Mount, some random horse doesn't disappear from a stable somewhere and reappear back once you're done.


Gate on the other hand, DOES call an individual. You nab Mister G. Bloodgullet from his living room in the 9th Pit and tell him to go smite in your name. There are benefits - you can get much better critters with Gate, better range, etc etc. However - a word of caution: Do Not Call Up Creatures That Can Plane Shift and Teleport Without Error, Particularly If They Would Want To Kill You Under Normal Circumstances. There is nothing to stop a creature you gate in, then send back once you're done with it, from poping back to you afterward to have a little chat.


Personally, I'd rather use Summon Monster IX. Besides - who wouldn't love some Rakshasa if you're fighting another caster?
 
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You can still fit a solar through a 20-ft. gate.

An 18th-level lawful evil cleric NPC (CR 18) can gate in a pit fiend (CR 20 but 18 HD, level adjustment much higher) so fixing the HD cap won't actually solve all the problems. An XP cost seems like a good idea. However, can you call an efreet (for 1000 XP) and get 15,000 XP worth of wishes from it? I hope not.

You can't really use role-playing to balance a spell... unless it's a hidden nerf. (Eg several ticked off solars come to visit you the next day.)

IMC there are only 12 solars, so if you try to gate a solar, you'll likely get a "divine" message.

Solar Message

Look for "George" the Solar.
 
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My house rule gate fix:

The spell confers no control over the summoned creature.

Simple. Do not call up that which ye cannot put down. You'd better have a party member with a really good Diplomacy check, and some good reasons for calling up the summoned creature. Otherwise, a summoning circle and some nasty outsider punishment spells are needed.
 

Gate is way, way better the SM9. In our campaign we have limited by Gate by only being able to summon creatures with a CR equal or lower than the caster's level -5.

This is way better than using the Hit Dice rule, because some creatures with few HD have hight CR's and vice versa.
 

ruleslawyer said:
My house rule gate fix:

The spell confers no control over the summoned creature.

Simple. Do not call up that which ye cannot put down. You'd better have a party member with a really good Diplomacy check, and some good reasons for calling up the summoned creature. Otherwise, a summoning circle and some nasty outsider punishment spells are needed.

See, having never actually used the spell, I thought it was like Even more powerful planar binding. I looked it up, and was amazed that it granted automatic control... seems kinda wierd.
 

1,000 xp balances it i suppose but I think its a lame fix. Fixes that fix it by making the spell unatractive to cast and this qualifies IMO aren't good fixes.

Heck I prefer my fix which I admit is weak where I said it can summon one creature of the SM8 list or two off the sm7 or lower list. With it ebing a standard aciton and having the ability to be used as transport its summoning effects should be weaker than SM9's summon effects.
 

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