Summon Monster Ruling

[ExMachina]

Hey All,

This has probably already been hashed out, but what languages do the fiendish and celestial critters speak/understand. The ones of animal stature (i.e. int 3 or so), and where is this located in the rules?

Thanks

 

[Infiniti2000]

They speak nothing, but understand common.

Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).

 

[ChefOrc]

According to the description of intelligence at the begining of the MM, creatures with int 3 or more understand at least 1 language, and unless otherwise specified, this language is common.

The celestial and fiendish templates do not specify otherwise, so these summoned creatures understand common.

Now, I think this is ridiculous, because there is no reason why a creature coming from Celestia would speak common instead of celestial. It makes sense to give these creatures the language related to their home plane, but it is a house rule.

 

[Cabral]

the templates increase the minimum Int to 3 but don't specify any spoken languages

 

[ExMachina]

the templates increase the minimum Int to 3 but don't specify any spoken languages

Ergo summoned animals cannot understand a language and can't be directed then?

Its an issue which came up in play last night and trying to find a rules based solution for it, no houseruling allowed on it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

By the letter of the rules, they speak / understand Common.

Any creature with an Intelligence of 3 or better speaks or understands at least one language. If none is specified, the language defaults to Common.

A celestial badger has an Int of 3 or better. No language is specified in the celestial template or the badger description. Therefore, celestial badgers speak / understand Common.

Some people argue that the existence of a language called "Celestial" means one is "specified." However, that argument is handily defeated by pointing out that fiendish creatures don't speak "Fiendish."

Besides, just about every "major" outsider speaks Common (or speaks telepathically), so they can communicate with Celestial and Fiendish badgers regardless of the language spoken by the badger.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Ergo summoned animals cannot understand a language and can't be directed then?

Animals do not have an Int 3. By definition, they have Int 1 or 2. However, even animals can be directed if you have speak with animals.

 

[ChefOrc]

Some people argue that the existence of a language called "Celestial" means one is "specified." However, that argument is handily defeated by pointing out that fiendish creatures don't speak "Fiendish."

My opinion is that the intent of the designers of this spell was to force summoners to learn the appropriate language/use some magical means of communication or not be able to give orders. This is apparent from the text of the spell summon monster:

If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

If you do not rule that celestials understand only celestial, then this line is useless because every summoned creature will understand common.

An other line of evidence is that Monte Cook published 2 spells in his Book of Eldritch Might 1 (tongue of angels and tongue of fiends) that explicitely allow to give commands to celestial and fiendsih summoned monsters. That tells me this is how the 3.0 designers envisioned this spell.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you do not rule that celestials understand only celestial, then this line is useless because every summoned creature will understand common.

Not true.

It means that every summond Celestial X and every summoned Fiendish Y will understand commands given in Common.

Lemures - Summon Monster 2 - are completely unintelligent, and therefore cannot be commanded in Common (or any other language, for that matter).

Elementals - Summon Monster 3 and above - do not speak or understand Common; they all speak their elemental language.

Hellhounds - Summon Monster 3 - speak Infernal.

 

[dcollins]

This has probably already been hashed out, but what languages do the fiendish and celestial critters speak/understand. The ones of animal stature (i.e. int 3 or so), and where is this located in the rules?

My reading is that they should speak Abyssal, Celestial, or Infernal, by alignment. Under "Skills: Speak Languages" it notes typical speakers:

Abyssal: Chaotic evil outsiders
Celestial: Good outsiders
Infernal: Lawful evil outsiders