Summon Monster Ruling

[Infiniti2000]

I did, however, the GM's take is that the creature only gains the Int3 by virtue of the fiendish/celestial template.

The Int3 grants the creature the ability to understand a language. Adding the template doesn't need to.

And since the template does not STATE that a language is gained at that point, the creature is unable to understand commands, and is just a dumb animal.

Int 3 may be dumb, but it's not as dumb as an Animal and isn't an Animal. It understands a language.

Speak with animals would work. But being a wizard, this is not a class spell, and it is self only, so it can't be cast on me. And even if it could I can't permanency it since it is not in the list of allowable permanency spells.

Actually, it wouldn't. A fiendish/celestial creature is not an Animal.

Thus my hope for some obscure WoTC approved source stating that a mage can learn Celestial, Infernal, etc. And by that means communicate.

Well, that part's easy. It's called putting 6 ranks into speak language, 2 for infernal, 2 for celestial, and 2 for abyssal, should your DM rule them to understand such languages rather than common.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Speak with animals would work.

Speak with Animals confers no ability to communicate with a Celestial Badger.

It only allows communication with animals, and a Celestial Badger is a Magical Beast [Extraplanar].

Size and Type: Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged. Size is unchanged. Celestial creatures encountered on the Material Plane have the extraplanar subtype.

-Hyp.

 

[Storm Raven]

I did, however, the GM's take is that the creature only gains the Int3 by virtue of the fiendish/celestial template. And since the template does not STATE that a language is gained at that point, the creature is unable to understand commands, and is just a dumb animal.

No, the summoned creature is a magical beast, not an animal. And the Intelligence gain grants the language; the template doesn't have to specify that it gains a language for it to do so. The test looks like this:

1. Does the creature have an Intelligence of 3 or higher?
2. If yes, then it speaks one language.
3. Does the text of the creature specify what language?
4. If yes, then it speaks that language.
5. If no, then it understands common.

By not specifying that the Intelligence 3 creature speaks a language, it understands common.

I will note that as a house rule in my campaign, templated summoned creatures do not understand common. They speak celestial, axiomatic, anarchic, infernal, or abyssal, whichever is appropriate.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What I am trying to obtain is any place I can point to that say Celestial/Fiendish summoned animals understand some sort of language by virtue of the 3 Int.

But you've already got it...

Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).

That's the place that says that Celestial/Fiendish summoned animals understand some sort of language by virtue of the 3 Int. If your DM rules otherwise, then you're out of luck... because that's the place that you're asking us to find.

You could ask if he'll allow the BoEM spells ChefOrc mentioned as spells on your class list?

-Hyp.

 

[Storm Raven]

What I am trying to obtain is any place I can point to that say Celestial/Fiendish summoned animals understand some sort of language by virtue of the 3 Int.

Well, the rules say they do. From the SRD:

Intelligence
A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).

It says any creature. Not "any creature except those who are templated animals". Any creature means any creature. Does a celestial badger have an Intelligence of 3 or higher? Yes. Does the text state a specific language for it to understand? No. Therefore, by the rules as written, it understands common.

It can't be much more clear than that.

 

[ExMachina]

But you've already got it...

Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).

That's the place that says that Celestial/Fiendish summoned animals understand some sort of language by virtue of the 3 Int. If your DM rules otherwise, then you're out of luck... because that's the place that you're asking us to find.

-Hyp.

Yeah, I think that is it...I'm out of luck, because his ruling is that that doesn't matter

Well, the rules say they do. From the SRD:


It says any creature. Not "any creature except those who are templated animals". Any creature means any creature. Does a celestial badger have an Intelligence of 3 or higher? Yes. Does the text state a specific language for it to speak? No. Therefore, by the rules as written, it speaks common.

It can't be much more clear than that.

I agree, but apparently it isn't


Thanks to all for trying, but looks like I'm S.O.L.

By the way, thanks to Infiniti for all the summon cards again, they're great.

 

[Storm Raven]

I agree, but apparently it isn't

Perhaps you could direct your DMs attention to this thread.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I did, however, the GM's take is that the creature only gains the Int3 by virtue of the fiendish/celestial template. And since the template does not STATE that a language is gained at that point, the creature is unable to understand commands, and is just a dumb animal.

I wonder how he'd rule a Half-Fiend, Half-Dragon Badger?

It has an Int of 8... as high as the average half-orc. But neither template mentions gaining a language. Still just a dumb animal?

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Yeah, I think that is it...I'm out of luck, because his ruling is that that doesn't matter

That's quite unfortunate. Does the DM recognize that he's making a houserule or does the unanimous, combined might of ENWorld totally not matter at all? If your DM could give a reason why it doesn't matter, perhaps we could convince him. I think his problem might be in how he views the template is applied, but I'm not sure.

By the way, thanks to Infiniti for all the summon cards again, they're great.

You're welcome. You'll note I kept my houserule out of this. I guess you'll just have to edit all of the celestial and fiendish stat blocks before printing them out.

 

[ExMachina]

Perhaps you could direct your DMs attention to this thread.

I'm sure I could, but I don't want this to be a me-against-him thing. Nice guy, fun to play with and generally not given to unfair rulings. But I will take the advice garnered here and make one more cogent argument for it, if not, its not like it is the end of the world.

My summoner still kicks <deleted> anyway