Summon Swarm, useless for non-druids?

[Graf]

Couldn't find anything on the FAQ or errata about this.

I recently used a summon swarm spell on one of my PC spell casters. Oh ok, said my player who then moved 5 feet (and took the 1d4+1/3levels of caster damage) and cast his spell.
'The spell can't move, you see" he explained

I have to admit that it says clearly that it can't move, unless you're a druid. Unless you already have the caster in a box it really doesn't do anything to prevent spell casting.

Despite the title of this thread I can see a few uses for the spell.... laying down the spell to make it hard to follow someone down a tight corridor or using metamagic feats to increase the size of the area. But its basically useless against spellcasters because they can leave whenever they want.

It would almost seem like the spell would make more sense if it gave a concentration check even a really high one(I mean if its an epic game and someone has Con +40 then they can probably cast a spell in the swarm. Does it prohibit quickened spells too? Why?).

Bonus question:
What would happen if you cast several summon swarms in a row on a corridor and someone ran through them. I'm tempted to say, from the text that they would take damage from each swarm they passed through. Am I wrong?

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

That's a good question. I can't really think of any other spells that have different effects based on who casts them. It sounds like a holdover from 2nd edition.

 

[Graf]

That (the 2e thing) would explain it. Wonder why no errata....

The title of the thread is definitely wrong.
As soon as I finished the last post I started to think about all the terrible things you can do to someone if you could inhibit their movement.
Drop them in a Wall of Force box and then summon swarm....
(I'm thinking about something similar involving invisible iron cages

 

[Saeviomagy]

I would say that since he took damage DURING the turn in which he cast the spell, he has to make a concentration check... After all, it's not like he moves, stops dead and then casts the spell, any more than a charging fighter runs forward, stops dead and then swings at his opponent.

 

[Oni]

I would say that since he took damage DURING the turn in which he cast the spell, he has to make a concentration check... After all, it's not like he moves, stops dead and then casts the spell, any more than a charging fighter runs forward, stops dead and then swings at his opponent.

Of course if you do that, than any fighter will shut down just about any spellcaster. 3e doesn't work that way specifically so spellcasters can defend themselves from this sort of thing.

 

[incognito]

Summon Swarm can be used to limit caster's movement (ie that 5' step may move the caster into flanking)

It can be used by enemies to lure a party into a trap. It can be used by a multiple times to create areas of no spell casting. It can be used to prevent casters from stepping in a certain area.

Not a great spell, but a good one.

 

[FlimFlam]

He would need to make a concentration check. Anytime you try to cast a spell within the same round that you took damage, you need to make a con. check.

 

[Oni]

He would need to make a concentration check. Anytime you try to cast a spell within the same round that you took damage, you need to make a con. check.

This isn't correct. The only time that you need to make a concentration check in regards to taking damage is if someone readies an attack to hit you when you cast a spell, hits you with the attack of opportunity generated by casting a spell, or from continuous damage. While some might argue that summon swarm is continuous damage I would say that it isn't based on the fact that it can no longer damage you the minute you leave the area of effect, unlike melf's acid arrow which is assumed to damage you throughout the round.

 

[Dakhran the Dark]

He would need to make a concentration check. Anytime you try to cast a spell within the same round that you took damage, you need to make a con. check.

That's how it used to be, but 3E does it different. You have to take damage at the very moment you begin casting, unless it's a spell that takes more than a standard action to complete...

From the SRD:

The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting if it comes between when the character starts and completes a spell (for a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to the character casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or a contingent attack, such as a readied action).

However, Summon Swarm would fall both under the section on Continuous Damage, and the section on Distracting Spells, except for the spell description specifically saying that "spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the swarm is impossible", which implies that the Concentration check automatically fails.

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's a good question. I can't really think of any other spells that have different effects based on who casts them. It sounds like a holdover from 2nd edition.

Magic weapon: counts as a blessed weapon if cast by a divine caster, not if cast by an arcane caster. (blessed stops regeneration of some fiends).

That's at least one example...

and frankly I think the druid needs all the extra help he can get spell-wise!