Summoned creature + trap

[PrinceZane]

I was thinking of a trap for the boss fight for a campain and being new to the DM side of things, I wanted to make sure this was all "legit" and whatnot.

The characters enter the room where a cleric and sorc are opposite conversing. At the sight of the players, the sorc casts darkvision on the cleric, and the cleric casts deeper darkness (as readied actions to do so against any "enemy" to the NPCs). 1-2 of the party members have darkvision, but the other 5 or so don't. As the assassin rogue charges to the casters (which I'm assuming he'll do), he triggers a breakaway floor leading to a spiked pit in the middle of the floor (between PCs and NPCs), with a second trap containing a silence spell cast in the pit to cancel out the chance of the PC yelling/screaming for help, etc. If the PC's see the trap, the cleric casts summon monster 5 for a celestrial brown bear to come attempt to bull rush one of them in.

A few things come to mind however:
1. First off, are the mechanics of the trap correct, or is this even possible/constructed right?
2. How big is the hole a PC/NPC can fall into in a pit trap: 5x5, 10x10, whatever I want... ?
3. If the assassin were going into battle, traps being the last thing on his mind, and triggers the trap, would he be granted the typical reflex save to avoid, or is the save denied because he's "caught completely offguard"?
4. Would anyone else that hit the pit that doesn't have darkvision be required a save to avoid the trap if they don't even know its there (assuming it's after the trap has been triggered)?

As I said, I'm still very new into the DM side of things, feel free to any comments (good or harsh), just provide reasoning as to why its correct/errored.

Thanks.

 

[shilsen]

I was thinking of a trap for the boss fight for a campain and being new to the DM side of things, I wanted to make sure this was all "legit" and whatnot.

The characters enter the room where a cleric and sorc are opposite conversing. At the sight of the players, the sorc casts darkvision on the cleric, and the cleric casts deeper darkness (as readied actions to do so against any "enemy" to the NPCs).

This is a big no-no. If the sorcerer and cleric are in the middle of a conversation and not expecting the PCs, they should definitely not have actions readied. You can only ready during combat, and allowing NPCs to do so beforehand leads to silliness like PCs walking around every waking moment of the day with a readied action against any enemy. Why not use something like an alarm spell or something similar to warn the bad guys that the PCs are coming?

A few things come to mind however:
1. First off, are the mechanics of the trap correct, or is this even possible/constructed right?

Covered pit trap. No problem. Check DMG pgs.70-74 for examples.

2. How big is the hole a PC/NPC can fall into in a pit trap: 5x5, 10x10, whatever I want... ?

They can fall into a 5x5 hole, but I'd go for 10x10 myself. Larger is fine too.

3. If the assassin were going into battle, traps being the last thing on his mind, and triggers the trap, would he be granted the typical reflex save to avoid, or is the save denied because he's "caught completely offguard"?

If he's running or charging, then there's no save. Check DMG pg. 69, left column, 2nd paragraph from the top. Otherwise, I'd give him a save.

4. Would anyone else that hit the pit that doesn't have darkvision be required a save to avoid the trap if they don't even know its there (assuming it's after the trap has been triggered)?

See answer to 3.

 

[likuidice]

also, doesnt deeper darkness negate darkvision anyway? you need an "ultravision" spell, (think it was in a FR supplement)
this is off top of my head, without books, darkness spells used to negate darkvision, not sure if this has changed in 3.5.

 

[PrinceZane]

Hmm. Converstaion wasn't really the right word to use. I guess "casually concentrating" would be better. There will be a fight just before the PCs get to this room so they're going to definintely know trouble is coming. I just thought some idle little bs to pass the time. (Like 2 guards at post by a door denying entrants, but bsing about a tavern fight the night before or something trivial like that).

The pit itself is about 100ft deep. I was mainly curious about the surface area of the entrance to the pit. 10ft would be nice, 20 better.

(ponders the rest of the post, a curse on my short term memory...)

Oh. I guess I'll drop it to just regular darkness instead of deeper.

The silent spell as the additional trap... is that set up ok? I was thinking like a proximity thing for anything to pass after a certain point in the pit to trigger it (probably 3-5 ft down from the entrance, maybe 10).

Lastly, for this particular reply, the bear bull rushing. Would it be "intelligent" enough to know about the trap and attempt to push it in? Could the summoner relay this particular order to it within the "the summoned creature attacks immediately on your turn"? Could it willingly just charge the PC into the trap, taking itself down too if necessary?

 

[Thanee]

also, doesnt deeper darkness negate darkvision anyway? you need an "ultravision" spell, (think it was in a FR supplement)
this is off top of my head, without books, darkness spells used to negate darkvision, not sure if this has changed in 3.5.

That is so.

The "Ultravision" spell is called Deeper Darkvision and found in the Underdark sourcebook.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

As for the initiative thing, if the cleric and sorcerer are aware of the party and know when they are coming, they could get a surprise round on them (see Initiative and Surprise rules), but that pretty much requires them to hide away from sight.

If they just stand there conversing, at the point they spot the group, they will be spotted by them as well and initiative starts normally, with everyone flat-footed until their first turn, both sides. This represents who can react faster to the situation.

Just because you are on guard does not mean you automatically react faster than someone who is exploring the area (who you can assume to be on guard also quite surely).

But standing there behind the trap is still a quite certain way to get someone fall into it.

Another point of note (unless you play with the 3.0 rules version), the Deeper Darkness is not pitch black darkness. It's just shadows making it harder, but not impossible, to see. They will still see that their ally drops down into the pit, even with the darkness spell in place.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Henrix]

Darkvision does not help against magical darkness, and Deeper Darkness does not make the area totally dark, just shadowy. So they can still see what happens around them.

 

[Twowolves]

For the Silence part of the trap, use a Glyph of Warding.

For the bull rush part, use an Earth Elemental. Their Push ability makes them ideal for this tactic.

Instead of a darkness spell, you might try a Fog Cloud.

Twowolves Howling

 

[PrinceZane]

Preciate it. On my way to work at the moment, I'll go through things again tonight. Thanks for the help and ideas!

 

[shilsen]

Preciate it. On my way to work at the moment, I'll go through things again tonight. Thanks for the help and ideas!

Don't forget to tell us how badly you mess them up