Summoning: Casting times and preferences

[Wik]

I actually played a tiefling summoner, and it was a LOT of fun. Granted, we changed things a bit (all my critters on my lists had the pseudonatural template instead of the fiendish/celestial ones), and we altered the lists a bit (note - Grell should NEVER be on a summoning list!) before reverting back to the RAW.

Really, a Conjurer is pretty damned powerful. My Dawnforge conjurer would summon a bunch of dretches (or were they lemures?) and then silent image another set,and then summon another group, and then silent image....

That one round casting time just means you have to be a bit careful.... with me, I just found something to hide behind (mages don't ever seem to take advantage of cover, which is stupid).

 

[frankthedm]

(mages don't ever seem to take advantage of cover, which is stupid).

Any wizard like that would get killed in games I run or play in.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

You guys have had better luck than me, because in addition to wasting the first round to cast, my experience is to have been hit with missile weapons frequently enough and get assaulted in melee enough to where the op-attack generated by me standing and chanting was damage somewhere in the teens and up, causing a concentration check that was only beatable by rolls of 15 and up on the d20.

It certainly can be that bad, but it does not have to be, at least not all the time.

My wizard is grinding through the G-series has been targetted by his share of Readied 15-20 point damage boulders while casting various spells, and it has not slowed him down -- thanks to Mirror Image, Protections from Arrows, and Blur.

I would say though, my experience playing an Augment Summoning-sporting Druid is that you cannot cast SNA if you get caught in the middle of a brawl unless you are going to bank on high Concentration rolls. Your AC is simply too soft to avoid getting hit when you are in an exposed position. Retreat to a protected location or make do without.

It is necessarily easy to get summons off, but I do not see this as a problem.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would say though, my experience playing an Augment Summoning-sporting Druid is that you cannot cast SNA if you get caught in the middle of a brawl unless you are going to bank on high Concentration rolls. Your AC is simply too soft to avoid getting hit when you are in an exposed position.

There's always Natural Spell, though.

Decisions - full attack on the barbarian, or the spellcasting squirrel?

-Hyp.

 

[Henry]

There's always Natural Spell, though.

Decisions - full attack on the barbarian, or the spellcasting squirrel?

-Hyp.

Interestingly, I answered that very same question last game, with my Druid. Attack the ungodly powerful Mivilorn, or the cleric hiding in the bushes healing the Mivilorn?

Answer: Bury the cleric under a ton of rock with a Bombardment spell and THEN take care of the Mivilorn. Anyone with experience attacks the squirrel, because squirrel's are scary, and spellcasting squirrels TWICE as scary.

 

[Arnwyn]

You guys have had better luck than me, because in addition to wasting the first round to cast, my experience is to have been hit with missile weapons frequently enough and get assaulted in melee enough to where the op-attack generated by me standing and chanting was damage somewhere in the teens and up, causing a concentration check that was only beatable by rolls of 15 and up on the d20.

E.g. a First level caster getting hit for about 8 points of damage, and assuming he's still up, having to make a DC 19 check against a concentration bonus of +4 or 5...

Or a 10th level caster taking about an 18 point ranged hit, causing a DC 33 check vs. his measly +15 or so skill bonus...

Or more recently, an 18th level caster with +27 bonus having to save vs. a spell that just did about 55 points of damage... Fortunately, I had put rapid on my spell when I prepped it, and finished it on my turn, but this would have been really impossible to make.

I reiterate, how are people getting this stuff off with as many deadly effects flying on the battlefield?

And I reiterate [my previous post].

Your situations happening 100% of the time IMC just doesn't compute for me. Ranged attacks just simply don't (read: haven't yet) done that much damage to make a Concentration check all that difficult to beat, there aren't ranged attacks vs. the druid/spellcasters every round, and - as I alluded to in my previous post - melee for the druid (and spellcasters in general) is a rare occurrence - the fighters would tear everything to shreds should the opponents ignore them and instead waste rounds trying to get to the casters. Further, any opponents with ranged attacks are first up on the 'dead meat' list.

 

[Thurbane]

Link Please!

This is the one I've been using:

 

[airwalkrr]

I have a druid with augment summoning in my Age of Worms campaign who makes great use of summoning. It is a potent build. the ability to summon allies into battle whenever necessary is incredibly invaluable. And on those occassions when the creature is needed for something other than combat, the full round casting time is of negligible importance.

 

[Hussar]

I've never played a druid, but I did play a conjurer up to about 12th level in 3.0.

Never had a problem with the 1 round casting time. Then again, I'm a wizzie, if I'm in melee combat with anything, I'm dead anyway. My first round is spent sitting still while everyone else protects me. After that first round of inaction, I start revving up and there's very, very little more powerful at those levels. Bags of hit points with teeth makes for excellent battlefield control.

Use them while in combat? Nope. Bad idea. Then again, casting in combat is pretty dicey at the best of times. IME, people are either casters or combatants. It's very rare that you can pull off both.

 

[bigdamnnerd]

*shrug* A combination of things, including (but not exhaustive):

- good tactical positioning at the outset
- good defense from the fighters
- good Concentration check modifier (really - what spellcaster botches a Concentration check these days?)

Casting defensively won't help against readied actions, and I've yet to DM a NPC caster that can keep casting after taking 50+ points of damage...gotta love high-level D&D...