Summoning HELP!!!

[dandean]

Hi!

I just created my first real Druid, and we are having some argument over the summoning rules.

I could sure use an expert to clarify this type of spell for me...

Here's the situation:

I previously played the PC game TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL, and when any spell caster summoned a nature's ally or a monster, that creature would come into existence and attack before anyone else went. The casting time was 1 round, and as a result, my character could move no more than 5 feet, and do no other actions besides the spell that round. But as I said- The creature came RIGHT INTO play and ATTACKED on that same turn. Not on the next. My friend said it was just because they try to make computer games faster and more fun. A valid possibility.

Next, back to my current live game... I made a druid, and according to the Summon Nature's Ally spell description, it says, "It appears where you designate and acts IMMEDIATELY, on your turn." Casting time is listed as 1 turn, but nowhere does it say that it appears and acts on your NEXT turn. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

My friend's argument- (Player's Handbook. p174 Casting Time, 2nd paragraph)
"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round AFTER you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed."

That also sounds like a no brainer. However, shouldn't the actual spell be worded differently? "...acts immediately, on your turn." instead of "...appears and acts at the start of the round after you started casting." makes me assume that they are over-ruling the paragraph from page 174. In Magic the Gathering, the rulebook says that you must sometimes ignore the rules based on what a specific spell card says. This appears to be the same thing.

That combined with how the PC game interprets the spell, and I'm rather confused and annoyed. Summoning is a hell of a lot less useful my friend's way.

What do you think? Do I need to admit I was wrong?

 

[Jdvn1]

You friend has it right.

It appears where you designate and acts IMMEDIATELY, on your turn

That refers to when it appears, which is the next turn.

 

[dcollins]

The previous poster is correct.

 

[dandean]

Yah... but I'm a purist. Even if I don't like a rule- I obey. No house rules. I don't know if I am good or evil, but I am certainly lawful.

Anyway... Thank you both for setting me straight. However... I don't think I care for the druid class anymore... :/

-Dan

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Yah... but I'm a purist. Even if I don't like a rule- I obey. No house rules. I don't know if I am good or evil, but I am certainly lawful.

Anyway... Thank you both for setting me straight. However... I don't think I care for the druid class anymore... :/

-Dan

Hi dandean,

This aspect of the class is not actually that bad at all. At lower levels, you'll be providing summoned creatures to suck up attacks of opportunity and enemy attention more so than major beef. However, when you go up levels and your summoned creatures hang around a little longer and become a little tougher, your turn is spent commanding these creatures to do various things - which is a lot of fun. When you get up to the really high levels, you can really pack some punch in combat. The Druid has a lot of things going for it so don't write the class off too quickly nor summoning - it really is a hoot.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Diirk]

To clarify further; a spell with a one round casting time such as Summon Nature's Ally is not just a full-round action. You are actually casting your spells for the entirety of your turn, and continuing it all the way up until your next turn (which is when the summoned critters appear: as soon as the spell finishes casting, right before your next turn. They then act immediately)

This has a few other ramifications. It not only means you can't do anything but take a 5 foot step in the turn you cast, it also means your spell can be interrupted by damage anytime until your next turn. Quite a drawback.

That being said, the Summon Nature's Ally line are very powerful spells, its a necessary limitation.

This is in contrast to a full-action casting time such as a spontaneous spell modified by metamagic. Those ones just take a full-round action and then they go off in the same turn.

 

[Shellman]

Hi!

I just created my first real Druid, and we are having some argument over the summoning rules.

I could sure use an expert to clarify this type of spell for me...

Here's the situation:

I previously played the PC game TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL, and when any spell caster summoned a nature's ally or a monster, that creature would come into existence and attack before anyone else went. The casting time was 1 round, and as a result, my character could move no more than 5 feet, and do no other actions besides the spell that round. But as I said- The creature came RIGHT INTO play and ATTACKED on that same turn. Not on the next. My friend said it was just because they try to make computer games faster and more fun. A valid possibility.

Next, back to my current live game... I made a druid, and according to the Summon Nature's Ally spell description, it says, "It appears where you designate and acts IMMEDIATELY, on your turn." Casting time is listed as 1 turn, but nowhere does it say that it appears and acts on your NEXT turn. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

My friend's argument- (Player's Handbook. p174 Casting Time, 2nd paragraph)
"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round AFTER you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed."

That also sounds like a no brainer. However, shouldn't the actual spell be worded differently? "...acts immediately, on your turn." instead of "...appears and acts at the start of the round after you started casting." makes me assume that they are over-ruling the paragraph from page 174. In Magic the Gathering, the rulebook says that you must sometimes ignore the rules based on what a specific spell card says. This appears to be the same thing.

That combined with how the PC game interprets the spell, and I'm rather confused and annoyed. Summoning is a hell of a lot less useful my friend's way.

What do you think? Do I need to admit I was wrong?

Your DM/ friend has it right.

Your initiative round 1: you begin casting spell

Your initiative round 2: You finish spell, creature appears and acts immediately. You can now act normally.

 

[Pickaxe]

Can summon spells (or other 1 round casting time spells) not be cast during a surprise round? Or, if you cast them, when do they take effect?

--Axe

 

[Diirk]

They take a full-round action + all the time up until your next turn to cast. A surprise round only allows you a standard action, so normally you can't cast the spell. However with the special standard action 'Start a Full Round action' you can begin to cast the spell on a surprise round, then spend your standard action in the next round to finish your spell, at which point the monsters would appear.

 

[dcollins]

That's what this action is for (from SRD):

Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.