Summoning Idea

[LowSpine]

There has been lots of discussion on how summoning is broken because of getting extra attacks and hitpoints.

I was just thinking: How about using a healing surge to summon. This might address the hit point issue. You are investing your hit points in the summoned/animated creature.

Plus to balance the summoned creatures extra actions, you could make it so the creature cannot use special powers unless you burn a standard action commanding the creature to do so.

Any more ideas?

 

[Plane Sailing]

My favourite idea for summoning would be twofold.

a) you summon a minion ("you're my minion!")

b) it is a maintain:standard

This gets around the hp problem via the minion rules, and doesn't mess up the action economy too much by requiring a standard action to keep it going.

A more brutal version would be that the minion gets the actions you don't. So you use your standard to give it a standard, your move to give it a move, your minor to give it a minor.

Cheers

 

[NMcCoy]

Conjurations seem to provide a pretty solid guideline for what summons would look like - sustain minor, and for the most part not taking actions unless you spend an equivalent action of your own, aside from an initial action for free when you first use the power. Note that conjurations can't flank or take opportunity attacks, so I'd be wary of allowing summons to do so. However, if you go the route of investing a healing surge in a summon and giving it that many hit points, allowing it to be attacked using the summoner's own defenses, I think giving it flanking and OAs in exchange would be quite fair. Or another idea: summons sustain for free (although you can only have one summon per character in play at a time); it has a number of HP equal to your healing surge value, and dismissing it is a minor action. If a summon is destroyed rather than dismissed, you lose a healing surge. If you've got no surges left, take half your max HP in damage instead.

More observations: Daily conjurations seem to do something along the lines of 2[W] damage with their Standard attacks, and have an additional effect (area damage for Flaming Sphere, grab and damage-on-sustain for Bigby's Icy Grasp, etc.) I'd design summons' attacks along similar lines.

 

[LowSpine]

A more brutal version would be that the minion gets the actions you don't. So you use your standard to give it a standard, your move to give it a move, your minor to give it a minor.

Cheers

I like that idea - harsh, but a clear balance to action economy.

 

[LowSpine]

Conjurations seem to provide a pretty solid guideline for what summons would look like - sustain minor, and for the most part not taking actions unless you spend an equivalent action of your own, aside from an initial action for free when you first use the power. Note that conjurations can't flank or take opportunity attacks, so I'd be wary of allowing summons to do so. However, if you go the route of investing a healing surge in a summon and giving it that many hit points, allowing it to be attacked using the summoner's own defenses, I think giving it flanking and OAs in exchange would be quite fair. Or another idea: summons sustain for free (although you can only have one summon per character in play at a time); it has a number of HP equal to your healing surge value, and dismissing it is a minor action. If a summon is destroyed rather than dismissed, you lose a healing surge. If you've got no surges left, take half your max HP in damage instead.

More observations: Daily conjurations seem to do something along the lines of 2[W] damage with their Standard attacks, and have an additional effect (area damage for Flaming Sphere, grab and damage-on-sustain for Bigby's Icy Grasp, etc.) I'd design summons' attacks along similar lines.

You could have the dismiss heal the summoner (I was thinking Necromancer) how ever many HP the creature has left, with extra HP lost. A Necromancer could summon a creature with a standard and then suck it dry with a minor dismiss action. A new take on healing for a Necromancer with the Leader Role.

 

[Raith5]

I think all these ideas are good but I would want to see summoning of major monsters through ritual like mechanic - at the start of the day you sit down for half and hour pay gold and you get a demon, elemental or monster for a couple of hours or until it dies.

A loss of a healing surge or strait out damage would be an appropriate extra cost if a summoned monster dies. And you would have to maintain the summoned creature - maybe minor or standard or the controllers acts as being slowed or something.

I hope summoning rules come up soonish but I hope that 4th ed druids wont be able to summon bloody animals. I like the idea that druids can call animals when in a natural environment but summoning them in never jelled with me.