D&D 5E Summoning Spells

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
Before I get into this, I just want to say that I love 5e. That said, there is an element of the new edition that I am not at all happy about - the summoning spells.

First off, there is a real lack of summoning options in the PHB. Wizards only get two summoning spells, conjure minor elementals and conjure elementals. The old summon monster type spells are gone, and I think that's a big disappointment. I enjoyed playing summoner type characters in 3e. It was alot of fun. Even though the summon monster spells of that edition were poorly balanced, I liked the fact that you could play a summoner starting at level 1. Now, you can't summon anything until you're 7th+ level, since the lowest level summoning spell is conjure lesser elementals - a 4th level spell. I'm also disappointed by the lack of ability to summon anything but elementals. Wizards do get animate dead, but that isn't technically summoning, and it has the stigma in the RAW of being "not a good act." I will really miss being able to summon fiends, celestials, and other creatures. Of course, they could always add spells that summon these things later, but the lack of such spells in the PHB is a disappointment.

Now, on to the bigger issue. The summoning options that they did provide are poorly designed, to put it nicely. These spells let you summon several creatures at a time. For example, the conjure minor elementals spell, when cast in an 8th level slot, can summon 24 elementals. TWENTY FOUR. That's an action economy nightmare. Who on earth wants to have to keep track of and roll attacks for 24 creatures? I certainly don't. It's not just the higher level versions where it gets obnoxious, either. Even the 4th level version of that spell lets you conjure as many as 8 elementals. Animate dead isn't much better. A wizard can get a dozen zombies from just a single casting, from what I've been told. Running around with dozens of pets may have been fun in Diablo 2, but I do not want to have to deal with such a mess in a pen and paper RPG. I really don't want to return to the days where everyone else at the table has to sit there bored while the wizard or druid takes turns for all of his pets.

FYI, you can see the conjure minor elementals spell here: http://www.actsofgeek.com/2014/08/game-the-game-5th-edition-players-handbook-preview-part-5/
 

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This omission does not surprise me. I assume it's harder to balance rules for bringing additional combatants into the fray.

Didn't 4e have to wait for later books for summoning too?
 


pemerton

Legend
I'm also disappointed by the lack of ability to summon anything but elementals.

<snip>

I will really miss being able to summon fiends, celestials, and other creatures.
Isn't that what Gate is for (9th level wizard spell)?

Not that I've read it, but that's what Gate has been good for in earlier versions of D&D.
 

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
Isn't that what Gate is for (9th level wizard spell)?

Not that I've read it, but that's what Gate has been good for in earlier versions of D&D.

Gate is a 9th level spell, and I don't want to wait until 17th level to play a summoner. Plus it gives you no control over what you summon.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
This omission does not surprise me. I assume it's harder to balance rules for bringing additional combatants into the fray.

While this is certainly true, [MENTION=17077]Falling Icicle[/MENTION] is saying that the current spells allow to summon 8 creatures at once (later 24!!). So how does removing older Summon Monsters spells and replacing them with fewer spells (but which summon many more creatures) actually works for solving this problem?

We were told that 5e would have easy rules for running a group of monsters as one creature only, this hopefully could help a lot, even tho we have to wait for the DMG. Still this doesn't explain why you can summon only elementals and undead in 5e.
 

This is pure, unadulterated guesswork on my part, but...

With "evil" options like the Death domain and the blackguard in the DMG, I wouldn't be surprised if fiend-summoning spells are there, too.

In the interim, the druid gets a number of conjuring spells the wizard doesn't. Maybe you can talk your DM into letting you take them as a wizard?
 

gweinel

Explorer
It is funny also because the conjurer as ability has that his summonings are much stronger while his first summoning spell is 4th lvl? He has to wait 7 lvls to be a summoner and use his abilities?

Let's hope DMG will cover this otherwise the summoner subclass is really underwhelming.

And btw...conjurer now... wtf? changed the name of one of the iconics spellcasting classes to one that almost noone ever used it?
 

I believe, the Designers didn´t want a spell in the PHB that requires the PC to flip through the MM. And I approve. I hope however, that the summopn monster spell will appear in the MM or DMG as an option for PCs. We already know, that some options are in the DMG, smmon monster seems like it belongs there.
 


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