Sunbeam

[Bad Paper]

The blindness is permanent.

 

[frankthedm]

The blindness is permanent.

Would that not be instantaneous then?

 

[Hypersmurf]

While humorous and fun to imagine, I don't think this would work. Don't you have to have a line of effect to the target location? 100% concealment would break that.

With a spell that has a Target entry, you must be able to see or touch the target.

With a spell that has an Effect or Area entry, you need line of effect, but you don't need to be able to see or touch the target, as long as you can define the point of origin for the spell - "Thirty feet thataway" works just fine.

-Hyp.

 

[Matthias_Gloom]

So if you have a friend spotting for you, and nobody gets in your way, you should be able to toss AE spells with reasonable accuracy.
Hooray for 'free' speech!

 

[Bad Paper]

Would that not be instantaneous then?

touche'

Yes, it is an instantaneous effect. The duration of the spell is for just how long you can go around throwing out these instantaneous effects. See implosion.

 

[Leif]

I hate to be a party-pooper (okay, that's a lie -- honestly, I live for it!) but my take on this is that the blindness is not permanent, and only lasts as long as the beam is shining in the target's eyes. I would think it would be more like turning on a bright lamp in a darkened room where someone was sleeping (said person would be termporarily blinded and would be unable to exact adequate revenge upon you for only several seconds, not forever, but if you turned the light back out, similar to how the Sunbeam spell lapses, then you would be subject to immediate retribution), as opposed to the inflicting of permanent damage to the retina/optic nerve. It's a DM's judgment call, either way, and judging from the replies in this thread, I am in a minority approaching, if not equalling, one.

 

[andargor]

I hate to be a party-pooper (okay, that's a lie -- honestly, I live for it!) but my take on this is that the blindness is not permanent, and only lasts as long as the beam is shining in the target's eyes. I would think it would be more like turning on a bright lamp in a darkened room where someone was sleeping (said person would be termporarily blinded and would be unable to exact adequate revenge upon you for only several seconds, not forever, but if you turned the light back out, similar to how the Sunbeam spell lapses, then you would be subject to immediate retribution), as opposed to the inflicting of permanent damage to the retina/optic nerve. It's a DM's judgment call, either way, and judging from the replies in this thread, I am in a minority approaching, if not equalling, one.

I actually agree with you. IIRC, blindness is not described as a condition that is always permanent. Since the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, and the blindness from the beams is not described as being instantaneous, I would say it only lasts as long as the spell.

EDIT: And I think I2K agreed with you also, others maybe.

 

[frankthedm]

While humorous and fun to imagine, I don't think this would work. Don't you have to have a line of effect to the target location? 100% concealment would break that.

Actually no, line of effect does not need line of sight.

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

So you can shoot firebals and lightning bolts where you can't see. Now a spell that targets a critter, like hold monster, though...

Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I actually agree with you. IIRC, blindness is not described as a condition that is always permanent. Since the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, and the blindness from the beams is not described as being instantaneous, I would say it only lasts as long as the spell.

EDIT: And I think I2K agreed with you also, others maybe.

No, I don't agree. I said it should be permanent because ruling such as you want to rule it (i.e. as long as the spell), is very odd. If you 'blind' someone in the last round of the spell, the spell immediately ends, and in fact that victim is not even blind past your turn. You're making this spell become even more useless the longer it is usable. More importantly, according to what Leif wrote, he would have the blindness last as long as the light, which is instantaneous and thus no one would ever be meaningfully blinded by this (unless you set up a readied action, which is very awkward for such a high level).

I really don't think that there's any reasonable choice other than permanent (perhaps instantaneous, but I prefer dispellable side effects). Having each blindness last 1R/L creates way too much housekeeping at a level where combats will definitely not last that long.

 

[andargor]

No, I don't agree. I said it should be permanent because ruling such as you want to rule it (i.e. as long as the spell), is very odd. If you 'blind' someone in the last round of the spell, the spell immediately ends, and in fact that victim is not even blind past your turn. You're making this spell become even more useless the longer it is usable. More importantly, according to what Leif wrote, he would have the blindness last as long as the light, which is instantaneous and thus no one would ever be meaningfully blinded by this (unless you set up a readied action, which is very awkward for such a high level).

I really don't think that there's any reasonable choice other than permanent (perhaps instantaneous, but I prefer dispellable side effects). Having each blindness last 1R/L creates way too much housekeeping at a level where combats will definitely not last that long.

Ok, then, you didn't agree.

Well, it becomes a matter of pure opinion, then. I feel that a permanent blindness effect is unwarranted, since there's no mention of permanent effects (other than damage, and destruction of specific creatures).

On the question of housekeeping, well that depends on how you run your games. I let the players tell me how long they have been under an effect, so it's no biggie.