super basic shield question

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
orc swings axe at wizard, wizard cast shield, then shield may block that axe? Right? This is how Immediate Interrupts work?

Does the wizard know what defense the orc would hit? I.e. if the shield would actually block the attack?

Thanks!
 

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Oompa

First Post
Orc swings and throws a 14, wizard has a AC of 15 and decides to use his shield spell..

You get to chose the power after the attack hits..

The only thing is you need to ask a dm how close the roll is to your ac..
 

mach1.9pants

Adventurer
Yeah it is a DM/player thing. In my game we have everyone's defences up on a white board so the Wiz can see if it is worth using shield 'cos I am up front with the numbers. However you could say 'the orc just hits you' as a big hint if you prefer not to use numbers at the game table.

If you are a nasty DM you won't say a thing and the player won't see the roll, so he has to just guess to see if shield will work. In which case expect him to choose a different utility spell!
 

hvg3akaek

First Post
If you are a nasty DM you won't say a thing and the player won't see the roll, so he has to just guess to see if shield will work. In which case expect him to choose a different utility spell!
I don't think it's nasty, the power till gives him +4 defence for a turn, and a chance at blocking the attack.

Compare it to the halfling's second chance, which only provides a chance at dodging the blow, if the wizard knew what the attack was, it would mean the power (a level 2 utility, right?) was far superior to the halfling's natural power.
 

Majushi

First Post
Are you saying that a lvl 2 wizard shouldn't be more powerful than a halfling with no class?

In my opinion, the rules do not state that the DM has to tell the Wizard what the hit came to.

But, on the other hand, I think that a fair DM should...

For the record. I play a halfling rogue in my local game, and there is a human wizard in the party with shield.

I have no issue with him being able to negate one attack an encounter, and more often than not he is either hit by a fair amount (more than 4) or missed entirely.

So alot of the time the power doesn't even come into play.
 

infocynic

First Post
At our table, DM rolls the d20, then asks "what's your AC?" (or if he has a pretty good idea, e.g., he just asked you three seconds ago when the orc's buddies hit you, he'll just tell you "that hits"). If you see a very high number on that d20 you may want to reconsider shield. :)
 

Anthraxus

Explorer
I've been in 8-10 combats since I got the Shield spell, using it *with* knowing the attack roll and still haven't used it. I guess someday it'll be useful. :yawn:
 

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
Thanks for the replies.

So, if I have this right, he knowns he is hit without sheild, can try to use sheild to block, but nothing obliges the DM to say what AC he hit, and if sheild will work.

A grey area. I like the hinting idea.

But how does it compare to the other lvl 2 utilities? The wizard has made great use of expeditious retreat, but that is a daily, as is feather fall. The other PHB utility is jump. Would always knowing if sheild would work make it the must have utility?
 

hvg3akaek

First Post
Are you saying that a lvl 2 wizard shouldn't be more powerful than a halfling with no class?
no. that was not what I said. But a level 2 wizard utility power shouldn't overshadow a racial power of a level 1 or level 30 halfling.


But how does it compare to the other lvl 2 utilities? The wizard has made great use of expeditious retreat, but that is a daily, as is feather fall. The other PHB utility is jump. Would always knowing if sheild would work make it the must have utility?
Indeed it would :) If it was for just the one attack, Majushi might have an argument, but the +4 bonus lasts a round. That is pretty significant indeed, and is still a good choice for a power.
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Would always knowing if sheild would work make it the must have utility?
There are two people in this thread with direct experience saying no, it's not. In fact, one of them hasn't used it yet in 8-10 tries! I think knowing the roll is fine. I especially don't like the idea of "gambling" on an unknown roll, which makes it only fun on a successful guess. Think of Anthraxus, if he had to guess. On combat 11, he guesses wrong. That would suck so bad I would take mach1.9pants up on the offer of a different spell.
 

Mahali

Explorer
We consider Shield pretty worthless if you don't know that it will cause a miss when you use it.

Besides it's fun when the DM asks if a "x" hits and I can say "Not this time!".
 

yesnomu

First Post
My DM clearly displays the attack rolls (we play online over Maptools), so I always know when Shield is useful and usually what the attack will do to me if it hits. Under these circumstances, I love Shield and will not retrain it for anything currently available.

I don't know if it's too powerful like this, but I do know that it works perfectly with my playstyle (I hate getting hurt).

EDIT: I even bought a Shielding Girdle for my Barbarian in another game, just so I could have a similar power.
 

hvg3akaek

First Post
We consider Shield pretty worthless if you don't know that it will cause a miss when you use it.
Do you miss the part of the power that says the +4 bonus to AC and Reflex lasts "until the end of your next turn"? hardly useless, even if it were never to stop the triggering attack!
 

infocynic

First Post
Yeah, 4 ac/reflex for a turn a nice, gives you the option to take an OA with a lot less risk if you need to position yourself, since like 99% of OAs are going to be vs AC, and you just added an extra 20% miss chance to all those rolls? That's not bad.
 

Trebor62

First Post
Shield has come up in the Dnd podcasts and the DM has let the Wizard know the number, so that the Wizard would know if Shield would turn it into a miss or not. player.
 

Mahali

Explorer
Do you miss the part of the power that says the +4 bonus to AC and Reflex lasts "until the end of your next turn"? hardly useless, even if it were never to stop the triggering attack!

Not at all, but if you just jacked your AC by 4 pts they're less likely to swing at you and go for you allies instead. Sort of a Win/Lose or Win/Win depending on how you feel about your party :)
 

Trebor62

First Post
If it was not intended to be reserved for stopping the triggering attack the I would expect shield to require the Wizard to state his use of it before the attack was made not after he has been hit.
 

eamon

Explorer
Fluff wise too I'd expect an in-game character to tell the difference between a glancing blow and skull-crusher. In general, I'd expect many meta-game stats to be visible reflected in some fashion in-game, if not with perfect precision; probably more stats than the PC's actually know.

In short, don't screw the player's by withholding information without good reason - they probably know too little as it is.
 

Stalker0

Legend
There are two people in this thread with direct experience saying no, it's not.

Well here's one saying yes it is:)

I let me player know the range of the attack so he chooses when shield is used. It comes up a lot, and I can't think of a better utility to take. Ex. Retreat and Feather fall are okay, but I always lean towards encounter utilities unless the daily gives a big big or long lasting effect. Cleric's bless....a great utility daily, feather fall not so much. And Jump....well....nah:)
 

Majushi

First Post
While I support the free exchange of information in this case, so the Wizard isn't gimped, I also agree with Stalker0.

Unless the dailies are awesome, Shield just cannot be beat.
 

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