supernatural and spell like

[BIGLOU]

OK,

have a few questions regarding supernatural and spell like.

Can they be countered ( I do not believe supernatural can)?
Can you determine what ability is being cast with a spell craft?
Can they active them when held?

It would be great if references are provides. Please also state if the answers are your opinions or actual rules.

Thanks so much in advance,

BIGLOU

 

[Skaros]

Opinions:

No, you can't counter them.
No, you can't determine what they are through spellcraft.

Ruling:

There is nothing in the description of counterspelling or of what supernatural and spell-like abilities are that implies they can be counterespelled, that I see. So I'd go with no on this one as well.

I read the descriptions of this in the SRD, but don't have my books handy.

-Skaros

 

[kreynolds]

have a few questions regarding supernatural and spell like.

Can they be countered ( I do not believe supernatural can)?

No. If the supernatural effect has a duration greater than instananeous, it can be dispelled, but it still cannot be counterspelled.

EDIT: I should clarify that even though you can't counterspell a spell-like ability, you can in fact counter a spell-like ability with dispel magic.

Can you determine what ability is being cast with a spell craft?

Do you mean "what spell is being cast"? If so, I don't believe you can.

Can they active them when held?

Yes. Neither need somatic components, or any components at all, for that matter.

Nasty, eh?

 

[Kraedin]

No. If the supernatural effect has a duration greater than instananeous, it can be dispelled, but it still cannot be counterspelled.

Which means, of course, that damage reduction and the monks ability to run can be dispelled. (I think that the designers dropped the ball on that one.)

 

[kreynolds]

Which means, of course, that damage reduction and the monks ability to run can be dispelled. (I think that the designers dropped the ball on that one.)

Not really. Take the Vampire and it's Domination ability, for example. You want the domination ability to be far more difficult to protect yourself against, primarily because you want to illustrate just how deadly/powerful vampires can be. By making it a supernatural ability, the domination ability is no longer subject to spell resistance, which is arguably the first line of defense against magical attacks, next to high ability scores and saves, of course. By the same token, it would be insane if you couldn't dispel the effect on a dominated character simply because it's a supernatural ability.

But, like you said, you run into wierd abilities that you shouldn't be able to dispel, like a Monk's increased speed. (By the way, not all DR is supernatural. The Barbarian is a perfect example of this.) In my opinion, it's obvious that you shouldn't be able to dispel a monk's increased speed, or a golem's Damage Reduction either. That seems to be the intent of the rules anyway.

 

[AuraSeer]

I don't think it's unreasonable for a monk's speed to be dispelled. You could treat it like the supernatural Magic Circle ability of a Bebilith: the effect is always on, and can be dispelled, but the user can reactivate it as a free action.

[Edited to add
I'm just making a remark about the monk ability. In general I think most supernatural abilities should remain undispellable, because otherwise qualities like DR and SR would be tremendously weakened.

 

[kreynolds]

I don't think it's unreasonable for a monk's speed to be dispelled. You could treat it like the supernatural Magic Circle ability of a Bebilith: the effect is always on, and can be dispelled, but the user can reactivate it as a free action.

That's a good point. I suppose since it would only be down until the monk's next action, and since it wouldn't cost any time to put it back up, then it wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[BlackBart]

Removed due to double post.

 

[BlackBart]

No. If the supernatural effect has a duration greater than instananeous, it can be dispelled, but it still cannot be counterspelled.

I'm sure you are referring to spell-like abilities, because I can find no reference to justify the same for supernatural abilities.

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance or dispel magic. However, supernatural abilities still do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). Supernatural abilities have a default action type of Standard Action.

 

[BlackBart]

Re: Re: supernatural and spell like

Yes. Neither need somatic components, or any components at all, for that matter.

Nasty, eh?

Note that spell-like abilities draw AoOs from threatening creatures. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are threatened by someone who is grappling you. You can "cast" the spell-like ability on the defensive, or just eat the AoO and then make a concentration check if damage is dealt.