Supernatural Effects after death

[Arknath]

Hey all...

Was confronted with a situation in my game a few weeks ago, want to see what the community thinks about the ruling I made.

Party comes up on a clearing...finds an enemy there...words are exchanged, battle ensues and five umber hulks pop out of the ground amidst the party (thanks to tremorsense). This is the ruling I made:

1) Since the umber hulks burrowed out of the ground within the party's ranks, I did not allow any to be "uneffected" by the gaze attacks what were in the 30' cone effect. The "look away" portion would not come until it was the turn of the individual characters.

2) After an umber hulk was destroyed, those who were confused by the creature were not "unconfused" because of it's passing. The supernatural ability continued to function after the creature was dead.

Thoughts?

 

[Victim]

Generally effects with durations (like the Umber Hulk's gaze, IIRC) will persist even past the death of the caster (or whatever, for Su abilities).

 

[frankthedm]

1) Since the umber hulks burrowed out of the ground within the party's ranks, I did not allow any to be "uneffected" by the gaze attacks what were in the 30' cone effect. The "look away" portion would not come until it was the turn of the individual characters.

Thoughts?

Gazes don't affect cones. They affect anyone within range. However, each person gets affected at the start of their turn, after they get the options of

1. Fight normally and roll the save
2. Grant foe a 20% miss chance for a 50% to avoid the gaze completely
3. Look completely away from foe, granting it effective invisibility

Now when the umberhulks popped out, they also could take an attack action to use their gaze against a single target.

Also if an ally of a gazer is within the range, they too are affected at the start of their turn, with the assumption of taking option 2.

Gaze Attacks
While the medusa’s gaze is well known, gaze attacks can also charm, curse, or even kill. Gaze attacks not produced by a spell are supernatural.

Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn.

An opponent can avert his eyes from the creature’s face, looking at the creature’s body, watching its shadow, or tracking the creature in a reflective surface. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance of not having to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains concealment relative to the opponent. An opponent can shut his eyes, turn his back on the creature, or wear a blindfold. In these cases, the opponent does not need to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment relative to the opponent.

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.

Looking at the creature’s image (such as in a mirror or as part of an illusion) does not subject the viewer to a gaze attack.

A creature is immune to its own gaze attack.

If visibility is limited (by dim lighting, a fog, or the like) so that it results in concealment, there is a percentage chance equal to the normal miss chance for that degree of concealment that a character won’t need to make a saving throw in a given round. This chance is not cumulative with the chance for averting your eyes, but is rolled separately.

Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents.

Characters using darkvision in complete darkness are affected by a gaze attack normally.

Unless specified otherwise, a creature with a gaze attack can control its gaze attack and “turn it off ” when so desired. Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round.

 

[Arknath]

Ok...so then two questions.

1) A gaze attack that suddenly appears in an area (say a creature had it's eyes closed or, in my case, they arrived near the party) doesn't take effect like that of a spell that happens at a point in time? If I had a spell programmed to a specific condition and that condition was fulfilled, wouldn't it require a saving throw (or whatever) when the spell goes off? Confusing gaze "goes off" when the party has line of sight to the umber hulk and if that happens on the umber hulk's turn, why would you wait until the PC's turn to allow the save?

2) Are you saying that umber hulks are immune to their own confusing gaze but not those of other umber hulks?

 

[IanB]

Ok...so then two questions.

1) A gaze attack that suddenly appears in an area (say a creature had it's eyes closed or, in my case, they arrived near the party) doesn't take effect like that of a spell that happens at a point in time? If I had a spell programmed to a specific condition and that condition was fulfilled, wouldn't it require a saving throw (or whatever) when the spell goes off? Confusing gaze "goes off" when the party has line of sight to the umber hulk and if that happens on the umber hulk's turn, why would you wait until the PC's turn to allow the save?

Because that's how gaze effects work. There are two ways a gaze can take effect; actively, or passively. Actively means the umber hulk uses a standard action on its turn and picks one target. Passively means the saves happen at the beginning of the affected creature's turn. That's just how the gaze rules are.

 

[Arknath]

I think that way is a fine way to keep track of how the attack effects players in a combat with creatures that have gaze attacks, but it doesn't cover the situation of "What happens when a creature's gaze is suddenly visible?" Dunno...may think about house ruling this one, but I'd appreciate any more info into the subject that you guys have. I certainly can't think of everything.

 

[rbingham2000]

I'm reminded of how Medusa's head could still turn people to stone even after Perseus chopped it off, and in fact was used as a weapon this way in the later scenes of the myth. So there's some precedent there.

 

[Arkhandus]

It doesn't matter if the gazer appears suddenly or anything. The gaze is not an instantaneous, immediate, split-second effect. It only forces a save at the start of the potentially-affected creature's turn, or when the gazer takes an action to actively stare someone else in the eyes. In other words, it takes more than just a split-second glance to be affected.

Creatures are immune to the gaze attacks of their entire species, not just their own personal gaze attack.