Supporting the "Three Pillars" Combat, Exploration and Roleplay equally?

I really want all three pillars to be as viable when constructing an adventure. Just like there's adventures with mostly combat, so should it be possible to create good adventures with mostly exploration. However, I don't want to see a lot of new rules to deal with exploration and roleplay since skill checks aren't a very exciting mechanic. Sure, you could add some more elaborate rules but I think the way to go would be to create more guidelines rather than rules.

For exploration you could create a detailed chapter on how to build puzzles for your players to solve, and how to create situations where multiple exploration skills would be needed to advance and the players would have to figure out how to work together to solve it. A guide on how to create interesting and challenging dungeons and terrain to traverse would be awesome.

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Similarly, I'd like to see guidelines instead of rules for roleplay. A chapter on how to create interesting NPCs with various goals that would intertwine with the players' goals. Not just for antagonists and allies, but especially those that were somewhere in between. The people you REALLY need to use your social skills on. Give the DM a helping hand in fleshing out NPCs and how the players could cater to them. Maybe the half-orc doorman isn't easily intimidated by the party fighter, but with a good enough insight check the party druid could infer that he might be easily flattered by the party bard.
THIS. Ever so much this.

It seems like people are overly focused on rules being resolution procedures initiated by players. I want lots of "rules" that make it easier for the DM to create & manage interesting places and people. I want random dungeon and random NPC personality tables, and systems for tracking time and exploration, and NPC goals and relationships.
 

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THIS. Ever so much this.

It seems like people are overly focused on rules being resolution procedures initiated by players. I want lots of "rules" that make it easier for the DM to create & manage interesting places and people. I want random dungeon and random NPC personality tables, and systems for tracking time and exploration, and NPC goals and relationships.

Indeed, as a DM the best thing for me are example that can be slightly modified or reskinned with minimal work. Aside from rules the DM needs TOOLS they can use.
 

Personally, I liked the idea of skill challenges because they actually did make non-combat encounters become more substantial (game within a game) than just rolling one skill check. They also encouraged DMs to make non-combat encounters that PCs could use creativity and roleplaying to overcome and gain XP to boot. In addition, a failed skill challenge did not mean TPK. It actually added interesting complications to the story that the PCs had to play through.

In one of my games, the players could not convince a mayor of a town ravaged by disease that they could help the town. (A fun roleplaying encounter skill challenge that the PCs failed). The mayor sent them away so the players decided that they needed to prove themselves. They overheard the guards talking about a band of orcs led by a nasty chieftan, so the party decided to track down the lair, kill the chieftan and bring his head back to the mayor.

Another time, the PCs had to escape a crumbling mine by riding a mine car (like in Indiana Jones movie). This was in a way an exploration skill challenge that gave me a chance to narrate an exciting ride down mine shafts, which could have ended badly. The PCs took some knicks and cuts, but they were able to pilot the car down and out of the mine just before the whole place collapsed behind them.

My players and I feel that these social and exploration encounters played well and were exciting. They also made use of non-combat abilities each PC had.

In the new edition, if there is a more clear baseline mechanic for skill challenges in both exploration and social interaction, I think it would work well.

For example, make all skill challenges based on how many party members a group has. For simple challenges each PC gets one chance to do something to either help or hurt (let everyone be creative and explain what they will do to assist the situation). For more complex challenges each PC gets two chances...for a very complex challenge each PC gets three chances. Encourage the players to roleplay or make decisions as their characters would and award +2 bonus to rolls for players who make it more interesting, etc.
 

Here's a thought/question:

What would it take to make it not only possible, but fun to play, something similar to "The Never Ending Story" via D&DNext?

This would be more than just cooperative story telling, but using skills, powers, abilities, etc to navigate the storyline. Is this possible, if so, how might it be accomplished?
 

There are lots of exploration rules to draw from all editions of the game...forced marching, environmental hazards, random encounter checks/tables, overland travel rules, guide rules for rangers, divination spells, visibility, dungeon turns/movement, etc, etc.

For interaction there's much less D&D rules precedent to draw from...skills, charm spells, morale, NPC reaction table, and...is that it?

If we want more balance between rules for the 3 pillars, then it's interaction rules that need the most development.
I agree with you here, but's what's interesting is to compare those exploration rules with the combat rules: very fiddly bitsy in comparison. For example, the rules of all editions define pretty clearly the benefits of being Blessed by a cleric in combat (+1 to hit, from memory). But the benefits of using Augury before entering a dungeon are left far more indefinite. And how does Augury help you with evasion, or improve your chance to track?

There is something to be said, in my view, for a greater degree of mechanical cohesion - although their are losses suffered because of abstraction, there can be significant gains by way of useability and integration.

Older editions of D&D have lots of rules support for exploration that the designers could take inspiration from.

However, there really isn't much of an equivalent when it comes to interacting with NPCs; that has always been more free-form.

<snip>

each of these "pillars" needs different types of rules. Exploration is well-served by rules which simulate a consistent environment, passage of time, and world paradigm. Interaction is well-served by rules which lean more to the "indie" side and engage players in the fiction.
I don't want to bang the uniformity drum too hard, but some considerations that tell in favour of a degree of uniformity are that it makes it easier to set challenges, to judge PC ability relative to a given conflict, to balance spells (Bless's +1 and Augury's +1 become functionally equivalent), and to award XP (because the difficulty of challenges can be compared).

Conversely, if the utility of Augury in exploration is obscure, or dependent in some ill-defined way on GM adjudication (contrast the somewhat more well-defined GM adjudication that decides whether or not a given fireball sets a particular forest on fire), then players may naturally tend towards Bless instead, which will undermine the design goal of putting the 3 pillars on a par.

I would also think it is good for all action resolution systems to engage players in the fiction.

Combat is well-served by rules which accommodate improvisational stunts while being tethered to hard numbers.

<snip>

I don't think it's an elegant solution because you're taking a model that works well in combat (roll and deplete points to win) and trying to apply it to scenarios that don't have clear victory conditions and have multiple possible outcomes.

What *might* be interesting is, for example, to have a stakes-setting element when interacting with NPCs. Something where the players get to influence what the victory / defeat conditions are when there's a conflict of interests.
Maybe even a stunt system for combat would benefit from more flexibility over success conditions and stakes setting! Part of the problem D&D has always had with stunts is treating "death of the opposition" as the only salient stake in combat.

Isn't that how Burning Wheel and FATE handle character traits/descriptors?
In BW character descriptors establish a type of success condition - having your PC do stuff in the fiction that riffs off your various descriptors earns Fate/Action/Hero points. This is somewhat orthogonal, although not completely orthogonal, to having your PC actually succeed at the tasks s/he attempts in the fiction.

This is one of the techniques BW uses to introduce multiple dimensions of success into any conflict, and thereby to handle common issues like players always bringing all their dice to bear, always letting the "face guy" do the talking, never taking prisoners, etc.

I don't want to see a lot of new rules to deal with exploration and roleplay since skill checks aren't a very exciting mechanic.

<snip>

Give the DM a helping hand in fleshing out NPCs and how the players could cater to them. Maybe the half-orc doorman isn't easily intimidated by the party fighter, but with a good enough insight check the party druid could infer that he might be easily flattered by the party bard.
This seems to me to be the sort of thing where mechanical systems can help: for example, some sort of robust system for chaining successes onto one another, or for using one ability to open another ability. (Like using movement in combat sets up a flank, which can then open up sneak attack.)

Having multiple dimensions other than simply rolling high on a skill check can make a big difference.

The game also needs guidelines on how to convey these dimensions to the players. In combat, for example, we use maps or descriptions of the layout to convey to players the information they need to bring the movement rules to bear. (This is part of what distinguishes GM scene-framing and adjudication from mere "Mother may I?") What is going to play a comparable role in the case of interaction encounters?

Passions, Traits, Relationships - things which you believe in, people who care about you - all things which can and probably should affect how you perform tasks where they're involved.
But imagine the outrage if relationships augmented abilities in D&D!

And there'd straightaway be a split between the simulationist and the metagame camps, which would manifest itself in debate over whether or not being a victim of Charm Person changes your relationships and therefore your available augments. (And this debate would get particularly bitter when it came to the question of whether your relationships can augment your "throw off the Charm Person" save.)

More seriously, I think they need something but I would be surprised if they go down this route. (But of course I've been plenty wrong before!)
 

There was plenty of exploration rules support and WOTC just kept stripping it out of the game bit by bit.

Time management
Wandering monsters
Evasion & Pursuit
Wilderness exploration & getting lost
Treasure for XP

Take a look at a B/X rulebook sometime and behold the mighty couple pages of combat rules.
Look at the humble but functional B/X character sheet. There isn't a whole lot there combat or otherwise.
I recently reread Moldvay Basic, and I don't think it's as thin on combat or as rich on other stuff as is sometime suggested.

There are rules for fighting. Character classes are heavily (though not exclusively) defined by their fighting ability (eg weapon and armour proficiency, the way that a halfling's great dexterity is mechanically expressed via bonus to hit with ranged attacks), and their ability to withstand damage (hit points). Clerical turning is explained in terms that relate to fighting (eg their are no rules for performing an exorcism of a possessed child). Many spells are also aimed primarily at fighting (eg the Sleep spell is defined mostly in terms of its effects in combat, rather than - for example - its effects when cast on someone in the middle of a tense debate; the Fireball spell is defined in terms of the damage it does to combatants, not in terms of - for example - its ability to set fire to flammable objects).

There are rules for saving throws, which are to do mostly with avoiding threats to life and limb (whether arising from fighting, or from traps).

There are rules for reactions, which (except in the case of henchmen) are framed mostly in terms of whether or not the NPC/monster in question will fight you. There are rules for morale too, which mostly deal with whether or not the NPCs/monsters you are fighting will run away or surrender. (Interestingly the reaction and morale rules don't intersect - so there are no rules for making NPCs/monsters surrender by scaring them.)

There are rules for finding traps and for dealing with tricky doors (eg opening stuck ones, listening at thick ones that don't have keyholes).

There are price and weight lists for gear, nearly all of which is oriented either to fighting or to looking for traps.

There is a reward system, in which recovery of treasure and character improvement are tightly entwined (although fighting can play a secondary role in character improvement).

And that's about it, I think.

It's not a bad system (except the Thief ability percentage are in my view woefully and absurdly low), but it doesn't have much to offer if you want to run a game with not very much fighting, not very many traps and only ordinary house doors. For example, if your players decide to try and deal with the Caves of Chaos by making friends with the inhabitants of the Keep and getting them to stage an all-out raid on the Caves (a completely viable scenario of intrigue and borderland politics), you're basically on your own as far as action resolution and XP awards are concerned.
 

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