Surprise round attacking from invisible?

[Thanee]

Can't you be aware of your opponent and still suffer a surprise round?

The situation is that they are aware something is there, but they're not really doing anything about it except... i guess, waiting. If I say 'roll initiative' they're gonna know an attack is comming and that just doesn't make sense, as they cant SEE or have any way to KNOW an attack is comming, their opponents actions are unknown to them!

If the PC's roll high on this init, and go before the nemesis, they will cease being flatfooted which, by the spirit of the setting, is wrong 'cos the PC's are just looking about, unaware, uninformed, with only the knowledge something, most likely hostile, is nearby.

Well, they are not flat-footed anymore, after they have noticed something and had a chance to act. Flat-footedness just simulates reaction time at the start of an encounter. They hear something, and then their initiative result will determine how fast they can react to hearing it. Not that they can do much, as they do not know what there is or where.

However, that is quite irrelevant, as they still lose their Dex to AC, since the opponent is invisible, so that's merely semantics with very little technical difference.

Anyways, if they do not respond to the mentioning of that "something" being around, then just assume that they are delaying, conduct the first round as normal and let the invisible one attack, then roll initiative retroactively and put everyone with a higher initiative than the attacker, 1 point below his initiative, ready to act exactly now.

That should work, too, I guess.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Drakeskull]

im with anax.

Im with Anax on this.

 

[Ryltar]

I would rule, that, since the PCs are only aware of "something", but do not anticipate an immediate attack by an invisible opponent, they will not be able to raise their weapons / position their bodies in a way as to avoid an enemy striking them. They will only start to realize that there is combat going on when they are attacked, not a second earlier earlier. Thus, the "Delay" action would give the PCs an unfair advantage, and I would consider the following to be metagaming: "I just delay my action until something happens" (No way: you don't know what will happen, and thus cannot act appropriately with what would be considered normal reaction speed for you). Long story short: Yes, there will be a surprise round, and they will be flat-footed. This may or may not be covered by the rules, but it's covered by common sense, IMHO.

Ryltar

 

[Thanee]

Uhm...

PC hears *something*
PC's reaction time kicks in and PC could now act
PC delays until something happens

What's metagaming there?

I don't think, that the players *know* that there is someone around invisible. Sure they might guess, but so might their PCs. It's a valid possibility.

Bye
Thanee