Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Since 100% of your post was rhetoric and Strawman, you shouldn'thave posted at all.That's alright. The question was rhetorical.
Since 100% of your post was rhetoric and Strawman, you shouldn'thave posted at all.That's alright. The question was rhetorical.
Since 100% of your post was rhetoric and Strawman, you shouldn'thave posted at all.
Then let me make my point more succinctly: what's the point in choosing either Stealth or Perception as my trained skills? They would be totally wasted skill choices because you don't ask for skill rolls in situations where a creature's skill level in either 'noticing' or 'not being noticed' comes into play. You just 'decide'.
In your game, how would I make an assassin? I know you're going to just declare that I'm automatically successful in my Stealth attempt, or that I auto-fail. Therefore, my 'stealthy assassin' concept is better realised without wasting one of my skill proficiencies in Stealth.
My post was relevant to the discussion. Your post responded to mine in a completely irrelevant way. You posted rhetoric and Strawman, and nothing else.My post was relevant to the discussion in progress when you joined in. If you don't want to take part in that discussion, maybe YOU shouldn't have posted.
And we are saying sleeping isn't unconscious and unaware, and have given plenty of evidence in RL to prove that. Do we need to bring in medical opinion too?I simply disagree that what we're talking about is a situation in which those skills are in play. The Unconscious condition tells me that an unconscious creature is unaware of its surroundings, so it doesn't matter how skilled in Perception that creature is. It is still unaware. And it doesn't matter how skilled in Stealth an assassin sneaking up on the creature is, because the unconscious creature won't notice the assassin until it regains consciousness. That doesn't mean there aren't other situations where those skills do come into play.
If your only assassination targets are unconscious creatures, then I would say you were right. I would still invest in DEX though, to increase chances that the creature is still surprised when your attack goes off.
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That's how it's meant to work. The biggest question as the DM though is deciding just how many Stealth checks you make for your monsters. The more rolls you make, the more likely you are going to roll poorly on at least one of them and thus alert ALL of the PCs and thus nobody is surprised. In your particular case... most DMs would probably roll a single check for all the goblins and a single check for all the wolves (since they have two different Stealth check modifiers.) But you are also within your right as the DM to roll a single Stealth check for the entire group of enemies, doing exactly as you suggested... using the higher modifier, the lower, or split the difference. It's really up to you.
To make a group ability check, everyone in the group makes the ability check. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails.
Group checks don’t come up very often, and they’re most useful when all the characters succeed or fail as a group.
I have found some definitions in a cursory online search that have used the word "unconscious" or "loss of consciousness" or "suspension of consciousness" at least partially to describe the state of sleep. So it would seem that textbook definitions are implying that there is at least some level of unconsciousness with sleep that renders one unaware of it's surroundings though most stop short of declaring total loss of consciousness.And we are saying sleeping isn't unconscious and unaware, and have given plenty of evidence in RL to prove that. Do we need to bring in medical opinion too?
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Is a response required to define consciousness? Because no response is given doesn't necessarily mean a person is unconscious. There have been many reports of people appearing unconscious and unable to provide reactions or responses to stimuli but later, when obviously conscious, being able to recall the details.I would definitely consider sleep a different state than unconscious. A noise/touch/whatever can rouse a sleeping person, whereas someone who is actually unconscious won't necessarily respond to such stimuli.