Surprised during combat?

[Gwarok]

Ok here's the situation. I had a teleporting ghaele chasinging some flying badguys. One of the badguys teleports away, I continue pursuit and fighting with the rest who are chumps. A few rounds later the badguy returns with 10 friends via a teleport. DM ruled it as a surprise round, so they got to all hit my poor ghaele with Unholy Blights x 10 before my guy had a chance to react and get outta dodge.

This confused me as combat was already engaged, how did they get a surprise round in? I checked the SRD for info on this but am coming up short.

 

[Infiniti2000]

They didn't really get a surprise round in. The DM obviously just did that to kill your character. You'll keep coming up short, because that's not possible. Of course, you might be leaving out some details, but going on just what you said -- the DM wasn't playing fair or flat out doesn't know the rules (and cares little about story I might add as MHO).

 

[Dungannon]

Assuming you were still actively fighting the other badguys and had not finished them off before the reinforcements appeared, I don't think a surprise round should've been granted. If I was the DM I might've ruled that you were flatfooted for their attacks, but you still would've been able to act on your initiative.

 

[irdeggman]

Teleport via almost any means is a standard action (spell, spell-like ability, etc.)

A surprise rounds grants a standard action.

So the bad guys teleported and attacked in the same standard action? Not allowed by the rules.

They couldn't have charged either since in order to charge you have to have a line of sight (basically have your target sighted and have a clear path to get there).

I see the bad guys teleporting into the scene as their action (all right even if the DM insisted on them getting a surprise action, which is not IAW the rules, they still have used that action to teleport).

I can see how your PC could be caught flat footed but not surprised (and denied an action).

We have gone over this surprised in combat situation before. The rules don't support it - they do allow a creature who is observing a combat to enter the combat at whatever time he wishes to (thus setting his order in the initiative order).

 

[mikebr99]

Ok here's the situation. I had a teleporting ghaele chasinging some flying badguys. One of the badguys teleports away, I continue pursuit and fighting with the rest who are chumps. A few rounds later the badguy returns with 10 friends via a teleport. DM ruled it as a surprise round, so they got to all hit my poor ghaele with Unholy Blights x 10 before my guy had a chance to react and get outta dodge.

This confused me as combat was already engaged, how did they get a surprise round in? I checked the SRD for info on this but am coming up short.

DMs can do whatever they want... but if my Druid were to summon 2-5 Dire Bears around you... You might be a little "suprised", and scared, but not game suprised (RAW)... as combat had already started, and everyone had completed their 1st action.


Mike

 

[Goolpsy]

Right, according to the RAW suprise rounds only appear in the start of combat.. The Dm could however have rules that you were flatfootet until your next turn... its one of those A knows B but B doesn't Know A... type of thing

 

[wgreen]

I believe the DMG talks about re-rolling initiative when an encounter's circumstances change so drastically that it should be considered a new encounter. I could buy this as being what happened in the OP's game, and I could also buy a surprise round if warranted. That is, baddie teleports in, gets a surprise round, and then everyone rolls new initiative. IDHTBIFOM, so I may be mis-remembering something, of course.

-Will

 

[irdeggman]

I believe the DMG talks about re-rolling initiative when an encounter's circumstances change so drastically that it should be considered a new encounter. I could buy this as being what happened in the OP's game, and I could also buy a surprise round if warranted. That is, baddie teleports in, gets a surprise round, and then everyone rolls new initiative. IDHTBIFOM, so I may be mis-remembering something, of course.

-Will

I haven't found that (at least not in 3.5)

3.5 DMG pg 22+ talks about how to start combat.

It also has a variant to roll initiative each round.

Pg 23 talks about the surprise round.

Pg 23+ talks about new combatants. Newcomers are aware – they enter combat at the beginning of a round. Newcomers are not aware – they roll initiative at the beginning of a round to determine when they act.
{Sure seems like the situation being described with newcomers being aware}.