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<blockquote data-quote="dante58701" data-source="post: 3354633" data-attributes="member: 40336"><p>I disagree...spellcasters are perfectly balanced just for that very reason. Spell casters as it is have plenty of spells that allow no saving throws. Which is fine...Fighters and Rogues have abilities that allow no saving throws. But though a spellcaster traditionally has low hit points and you can save against their spells, they are often times the most likely to survive to higher levels due to being far more intelligent and more methodical. Spellcasters are supposed to be tricky to run. If they were easy we'd have mages running amok and destroying whole worlds in every campaign session. </p><p></p><p>As for designing new spells...that comes with the territory of playing a spellcaster. Magic is powerful and that power comes at a price.</p><p></p><p>We must also consider the fact that nearly every ascended deity is a spellcaster. They simply use heighten spell multiple times to increase the DC of their spell. Another option is to design spells that make saving throws difficult. Like the classic combination of "Otto's Irresistable Dance" (Requires that you roll a 20 to save successfully" and "Chromatic Orb (Save or Die)". Spells are often best as combinations. Which is while being able to cast multiple spells is also useful against people with super awesome saving throws. </p><p>At 10th Level a wizard is easily the superior of nearly every player on the battle field. They can typically cast fly, grease, and fireball. They can stay well out of arrow range after greasing the area and launch a few fireballs for fun. Then stand back and watch everyone die in the grease fire, assuming the 10d6 fireballs didnt kill everyone.</p><p></p><p>At Epic Levels there are the spell focus feats, but I find those to be a waste of feats. I ust heighten the spell repeatedly and blast the <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> out of my targets with spells that make you save for half damage...after making my enemies immobile with transmute rock to mud and then transmute mud to rock. Against wizards I have powerful defensive spells that are continually active via Permanent Emanation and blast them with their own magicks via epic spell turning. All while delivering improved versions of Hellball at their feet. That way the exploding debris also damages them...sure...minor extra damage...but the even incidentals can be useful.</p><p></p><p>My all time favorite tactic is to play an epic wizard who pretend to be only 1st level. Then when people try to kill them...they get blasted. Wizards arent likely to hang out with others...and when they do...they are more likely to hang out with those that have the same physical toughness as themselves (which includes lower level non spellcasters and roughly equal level spellcasters). Only in an adventuring (gaming) group do you find characters of roughly equal level. This is unrealistic in the extreme. To simulate what would really happen if magic were real...</p><p></p><p>Have spellcasters start off at a level where they have hit points equal to the nonspellcasters. This way they can get into a knock down drag out fight and still not die in the first round. Spells are not everything.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dante58701, post: 3354633, member: 40336"] I disagree...spellcasters are perfectly balanced just for that very reason. Spell casters as it is have plenty of spells that allow no saving throws. Which is fine...Fighters and Rogues have abilities that allow no saving throws. But though a spellcaster traditionally has low hit points and you can save against their spells, they are often times the most likely to survive to higher levels due to being far more intelligent and more methodical. Spellcasters are supposed to be tricky to run. If they were easy we'd have mages running amok and destroying whole worlds in every campaign session. As for designing new spells...that comes with the territory of playing a spellcaster. Magic is powerful and that power comes at a price. We must also consider the fact that nearly every ascended deity is a spellcaster. They simply use heighten spell multiple times to increase the DC of their spell. Another option is to design spells that make saving throws difficult. Like the classic combination of "Otto's Irresistable Dance" (Requires that you roll a 20 to save successfully" and "Chromatic Orb (Save or Die)". Spells are often best as combinations. Which is while being able to cast multiple spells is also useful against people with super awesome saving throws. At 10th Level a wizard is easily the superior of nearly every player on the battle field. They can typically cast fly, grease, and fireball. They can stay well out of arrow range after greasing the area and launch a few fireballs for fun. Then stand back and watch everyone die in the grease fire, assuming the 10d6 fireballs didnt kill everyone. At Epic Levels there are the spell focus feats, but I find those to be a waste of feats. I ust heighten the spell repeatedly and blast the :):):):) out of my targets with spells that make you save for half damage...after making my enemies immobile with transmute rock to mud and then transmute mud to rock. Against wizards I have powerful defensive spells that are continually active via Permanent Emanation and blast them with their own magicks via epic spell turning. All while delivering improved versions of Hellball at their feet. That way the exploding debris also damages them...sure...minor extra damage...but the even incidentals can be useful. My all time favorite tactic is to play an epic wizard who pretend to be only 1st level. Then when people try to kill them...they get blasted. Wizards arent likely to hang out with others...and when they do...they are more likely to hang out with those that have the same physical toughness as themselves (which includes lower level non spellcasters and roughly equal level spellcasters). Only in an adventuring (gaming) group do you find characters of roughly equal level. This is unrealistic in the extreme. To simulate what would really happen if magic were real... Have spellcasters start off at a level where they have hit points equal to the nonspellcasters. This way they can get into a knock down drag out fight and still not die in the first round. Spells are not everything. [/QUOTE]
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