Survivability for "Heart of Nightfang Spire"?
- Thread starter Buddha the DM
- Start date
My players got through this without any actual deaths, but they were a six-member party of 11th level. The classes were: paladin, bard, fighter, monk, sorcerer, and cleric.Kershek said:
Even though they were more powerful than a standard party, they survived mainly through luck. More than once, a single fortunate saving throw or attack roll saved party members from death.
Another major factor was having a single-class cleric with Extra Turning and the Sun domain. With assistance from the paladin, he turned some of the coolest undead into dust. He's lucky I'm not the metagaming type, or every single attack would've been an ambush designed to put him out of commission.
[Edited to add]
Oh, and my dice conspired against me. Every single time the BBEG had an opportunity to locate them, I failed the check, and he happened to be looking elsewhere. So he didn't factor into the adventure much until they actually confronted him.
Last edited:
Kershek
Sci-Fi Newshound
Well, the party I've got going through the adventure path is most of the way through 8th level and they are just finishing Speaker in Dreams. They probably won't hit this module until 12th level. There's a Half-Orc Barbarian, Dwarf Cleric, Human Rogue/Ranger, and Elf Wizard. They're quite min-maxed and high-powered. I wonder how they'll do. I figure that we'll probably get to that module by around summertime, since we play multiple campaigns simultaneously.
Zad
First Post
I will put this as calmly, clearly, and directly as I can.
DON'T GO!!!
I've seen the horror that is Nightfang Spire. And I'm quite serious in saying what I said. Here's why:
1. Your party is small, and lacks the clerical punch to have even a prayer of surviving let alone winning.
2. The module, to be blunt, stinks. (Edited for Eric's Grandma.) I kid you not - it's a poor module, that is overpowered for the levels it's supposed to be for. Worse yet, it's just plain mean. It's arbitrary and cruel and death will come swiftly and often. My group had 6 PC's including a cleric undead-hater, and we still got stomped. If the DM plays the monsters with any remote sense of intelligence, they will destroy you.
Now of course, all this changes if the DM adapts the module. But the real crime here is that DM's are deceived by it. They pick it up, and read through it, and because it's WoTC published, think that it should work fine for their group. It's not til the players are inside, suffering senseless save-or-die traps and repeated attacks that they realize that it's a badly scaled horror of a place. The final encounter quite frankly seems unwinable to me.
If you really truly must go there, then please please please please talk to your DM. There are reviews and story hours that used the module on the boards. Tell him people have said it's a bad module and not only overpowered but also deceptive. Beg him to take a long serious look at the module and the encounters and judge if it's a good fit.
Good luck. You'll need it.
DON'T GO!!!
I've seen the horror that is Nightfang Spire. And I'm quite serious in saying what I said. Here's why:
1. Your party is small, and lacks the clerical punch to have even a prayer of surviving let alone winning.
2. The module, to be blunt, stinks. (Edited for Eric's Grandma.) I kid you not - it's a poor module, that is overpowered for the levels it's supposed to be for. Worse yet, it's just plain mean. It's arbitrary and cruel and death will come swiftly and often. My group had 6 PC's including a cleric undead-hater, and we still got stomped. If the DM plays the monsters with any remote sense of intelligence, they will destroy you.
Now of course, all this changes if the DM adapts the module. But the real crime here is that DM's are deceived by it. They pick it up, and read through it, and because it's WoTC published, think that it should work fine for their group. It's not til the players are inside, suffering senseless save-or-die traps and repeated attacks that they realize that it's a badly scaled horror of a place. The final encounter quite frankly seems unwinable to me.
If you really truly must go there, then please please please please talk to your DM. There are reviews and story hours that used the module on the boards. Tell him people have said it's a bad module and not only overpowered but also deceptive. Beg him to take a long serious look at the module and the encounters and judge if it's a good fit.
Good luck. You'll need it.
This is probably just about the single deadliest module around. It almost needs in my opinion TWO single classed clerics to be able to handle the plethora of undead because if in any of the many undead fights the sole cleric gets level drained it goes down hill quick.
My players resorted to hocking much magic for a greater planar ally....
Marcus
My players resorted to hocking much magic for a greater planar ally....
Marcus
Buddha the DM
Explorer
I forgot to mention this earlier... I am the DM.
Henry
Autoexreginated
Y'know, this is how the legends of the Tomb of Horrors got started. 
I think I need to go get this thing. I read through it once from a friend, to pick up treasure values for a Dragonsfoot thread, but didn't pay much attention to module design. Sounds like a great adventure.
I think I need to go get this thing. I read through it once from a friend, to pick up treasure values for a Dragonsfoot thread, but didn't pay much attention to module design. Sounds like a great adventure.
Zad
First Post
If you're the DM, then two suggestions.
1. Take a match and burn the module. Send the ashes to Bruce Cordell
2. Failing that, you really need to review the module throroughly.
SPOILERS BELOW
That statue with the riddle is gonna kill someone most likely. It's just arbitrary and mean. The wight assassin can probably take out the cleric and with time the others as well. That doesn't even get into the final battle in the core which is completely unwinnable by this group, unless you play Gulthias with the brains of a cheesey poof. The flesh golem is very lethal. Hell the mooncalf will probably be a pain of a fight. And the group will want to withdraw to rest, and the undead will reset.
Take a hard look at each of the encounters and work out whether you think it's appropriate for this group. I think you'll find that it is horribly off balance. At the very least, you'll have to make inexpensive raise-dead magic available to the group.
1. Take a match and burn the module. Send the ashes to Bruce Cordell
2. Failing that, you really need to review the module throroughly.
SPOILERS BELOW
That statue with the riddle is gonna kill someone most likely. It's just arbitrary and mean. The wight assassin can probably take out the cleric and with time the others as well. That doesn't even get into the final battle in the core which is completely unwinnable by this group, unless you play Gulthias with the brains of a cheesey poof. The flesh golem is very lethal. Hell the mooncalf will probably be a pain of a fight. And the group will want to withdraw to rest, and the undead will reset.
Take a hard look at each of the encounters and work out whether you think it's appropriate for this group. I think you'll find that it is horribly off balance. At the very least, you'll have to make inexpensive raise-dead magic available to the group.
VorpalBunny
Explorer
My group went in with a:
Ftr6/Duelist 4
Clr11
Ftr4/Rog3/Rgr4
Wiz11
Rog9/Sor1
The Ftr/Rog/Rgr almost died in the first encounter (-6 hp, but the cleric healed him), the Rog/Sor died, so did the "replacement" character (Rog10), and the Ftr/Duelist died twice - once from a trap - was raised and again in the final encounter (and was raised again).
What a great adventure - a real blast to DM.
Ftr6/Duelist 4
Clr11
Ftr4/Rog3/Rgr4
Wiz11
Rog9/Sor1
The Ftr/Rog/Rgr almost died in the first encounter (-6 hp, but the cleric healed him), the Rog/Sor died, so did the "replacement" character (Rog10), and the Ftr/Duelist died twice - once from a trap - was raised and again in the final encounter (and was raised again).
What a great adventure - a real blast to DM.
Buddha the DM
Explorer
Zad said:
1. Like hell.. I'm not burning any rpg material.
2. I have.
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