Suspension of disbelief and gamers

[ciaran00]

I think what you may mean is that gamers aren't stupid? Blind suspension of disbelief isn't being imaginitive, it's being an idiot.

There is an important concept called believability of fantasy. Major plot holes should never be tolerated by any one. It's got nothing to do with lack of imagination.

ciaran

 

[Epametheus]

The Eagles couldn't do that because Sauron would almost certainly notice THE GIANT EAGLES flying across his realm and smite the hell out of them by proxy. I really doubt that a big bird can stand up to a Naz'Gul.

As for the topic at hand: I don't even worry about S. o. D. This is a game, not a play.

 

[KenM]

http://www.comingsoon.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23783&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Some good thoughts, both for and against, the eagles in LotR there.

Back on topic, I have a friend I game that over anlyaizes(SP) EVERYTHING and he can't enjoy anything. If he finds one plot hole, ect, it totally falls apart for Him.

 

[Nifft]

[Back on topic, I have a friend I game that over anlyaizes(SP) EVERYTHING and he can't enjoy anything. If he finds one plot hole, ect, it totally falls apart for him.

My favorite answer to this:

Meta-Player: "Hey, that makes no sense... the demon-baker didn't want the Great Pizza Diamond!"

DM: *smirk* "Yes, that is interesting, isn't it?"

Meta-Player: "You planned that? I must figure out your diabolical plan! It's clearly more subtle than I'd thought..."

-- N

 

[Kahuna Burger]

My favorite answer to this:

Meta-Player: "Hey, that makes no sense... the demon-baker didn't want the Great Pizza Diamond!"

DM: *smirk* "Yes, that is interesting, isn't it?"

kahuna player: *rolls eyes* "no not really, you didn't want the plan to work so it didn't, lets move on." (leaving aside for the moment the silliness of calling someone a "metaplayer" for being aware that the DM does in fact make those decisions. Thats what I normally call a "tied in to reality player".)

I've found that one thing that breaks my willing suspension of disbelief is when it becomes clear that the DM has made a decision based entirely on game expediency. Something doesn't work because it would short circuit the plot, an unprecedented arrival swings the party's plans back to the module path they had almost left, an enemy suddenly throws the "intro fight" when he unexpected gets the upper hand.

Oddly, I was just thinking about this the other day in a totally different context. I was watching Law and Order, and two key peices of evidence in a row were excluded when the case seemed sewed up. Now this in and of itself wasn't unusual, its a common plot point. But the excuses to throw them out were so INCREDIBLY weak, it pretty much screamed "oops, wrote myself into a corner, how do we make the orriginal plan for what was gonna be crucial work?"

and to jump contexts yet again, this is a key problem I have with George RR Martin's last book. Things going wrong is fine, its what makes drama what it is, but there's a point where it is so transparently a "plot adjustment" rather than a natural progression of the story that I balk, and lose my SOD and thus my interest.

So to go back to the orriginal issue, I don't think this is a problem of immagination, by any means. If anything, its an issue of how far I am willing to bend over and WORK to suspend not only disbelief, but common sense, and how much I am willing to take over that work entirely when its supposed to be at a minimum a shared task with the presenter of fiction.

So I guess the short version woud be "yeah, mostly what ciaran00 said"

Kahuna Burger

 

[KenM]

Take my current DnD game. I'l try to make this as short as possible. We were put on this quest to find a magic breastplate and gems that can be put into the breastplate we know that these items are dangerous and know once we get them, the breastplate should be destroyed. After finding all the gems, we find the breastplate as part of a statue of what we suspect is the BBEG turned into a statue. We also have reason to belive that the BBEG is a lich. We have a portible hole, so we stuck the statue in it so we can carry it. So right now we are looking to destroy it. We have tryed to destroy it by chipping at it, ect, it won't work, its magical.
We are all about 8-10th level, we have done some plane jumping to save some party members once. I think that to get rid of the statue, we jump to a plane that we think does not have many people, and leave the staue there, and jump back, end of problem. The DM says that the gods won't allow that. DM says only way to destroy it is with a fire hot enough, and the only fire hot enough is in a volcano. Orginal, huh?
I can understand the DM not allowing us to destroy it by "normal" means. But I can't understand why the planeshift and leaving it someplace would not work. To me that was too much plot device and I lost my suspension of belief for the world. The DM basically said "I will not allow your characters to leave the statue on another plane".

 

[Unseelie]

Take my current DnD game. I'l try to make this as short as possible. We were put on this quest to find a magic breastplate and gems that can be put into the breastplate we know that these items are dangerous and know once we get them, the breastplate should be destroyed. After finding all the gems, we find the breastplate as part of a statue of what we suspect is the BBEG turned into a statue. We also have reason to belive that the BBEG is a lich. We have a portible hole, so we stuck the statue in it so we can carry it. So right now we are looking to destroy it. We have tryed to destroy it by chipping at it, ect, it won't work, its magical.
We are all about 8-10th level, we have done some plane jumping to save some party members once. I think that to get rid of the statue, we jump to a plane that we think does not have many people, and leave the staue there, and jump back, end of problem. The DM says that the gods won't allow that. DM says only way to destroy it is with a fire hot enough, and the only fire hot enough is in a volcano. Orginal, huh?
I can understand the DM not allowing us to destroy it by "normal" means. But I can't understand why the planeshift and leaving it someplace would not work. To me that was too much plot device and I lost my suspension of belief for the world. The DM basically said "I will not allow your characters to leave the statue on another plane".

Heh... I would have let you leave the statue there, but it would have come back to haunt you later.

 

[EtherHulkRending]

I hate it when a good plan gets killed by the DM" because I said so"

I've played for about 4 years, yes I'm a youngin on these boards but it was DM antics like that which made me pick up the books and take over the group. Suspension of disbelief is a problem when the players aren't getting enough information, or the plot is either A. entirely predictable, or B. full of holes in congruity and lots of DM "I said so's"

If the players are still guessing, they're still believing,

improvise, overcome, adapt

EHR

 

[Aaron L]

Those problems aren't lack of suspension of disbelief, they are terminal railroading.

 

[KenM]

Those problems aren't lack of suspension of disbelief, they are terminal railroading.

I agree its railroading, but because of the railroading, I loose my suspension of disbelief.