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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Sustain Provokes?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 4686712" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Okay, so first something we can all agree to: "Sustain" isn't its own action (like "Grab" or "Drop Prone"), so in one way, the answer must be that it's undefined, the rules don't say.</p><p></p><p>But that ignores the fact that the rules don't (and shouldn't have to) state each and every case where something <strong>doesn't</strong> apply.</p><p></p><p>In other words, unless you're told that some condition or effect applies, you should assume it doesn't apply. This is the principle where you grant the designers the benefit where any "omission" is assumed <strong>deliberate rather than accidental</strong>. And where we leave it up to errata in the (few) cases where it isn't.</p><p></p><p>So. Let's instead look at the definition of Opportunity Attacks. Does it say they apply to sustain actions?</p><p></p><p>No, they don't. Case closed. This isn't an instance where the RAW is "undefined" folks. </p><p></p><p>If you allow OAs for sustains, fine. But don't kid yourself into this being more than a house rule - the link between OAs and sustains simply isn't there, in the rules text.</p><p></p><p>Hyp: while I appreciate your rules fu in general, I think you've embarked upon the wrong road here. "Proving" a rules claim to be untenable by examining its cascade effects will never be more than circumstantial at best. In a case like this, the only answer is to ask those who make a claim to provide rules support themselves, rather than being goaded into trying to find proof against that claim (which, of course, is essentially impossible or rulebooks would all be bloated multi-volume listings of what the rules <em>don't</em> say...) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 4686712, member: 12731"] Okay, so first something we can all agree to: "Sustain" isn't its own action (like "Grab" or "Drop Prone"), so in one way, the answer must be that it's undefined, the rules don't say. But that ignores the fact that the rules don't (and shouldn't have to) state each and every case where something [B]doesn't[/B] apply. In other words, unless you're told that some condition or effect applies, you should assume it doesn't apply. This is the principle where you grant the designers the benefit where any "omission" is assumed [B]deliberate rather than accidental[/B]. And where we leave it up to errata in the (few) cases where it isn't. So. Let's instead look at the definition of Opportunity Attacks. Does it say they apply to sustain actions? No, they don't. Case closed. This isn't an instance where the RAW is "undefined" folks. If you allow OAs for sustains, fine. But don't kid yourself into this being more than a house rule - the link between OAs and sustains simply isn't there, in the rules text. Hyp: while I appreciate your rules fu in general, I think you've embarked upon the wrong road here. "Proving" a rules claim to be untenable by examining its cascade effects will never be more than circumstantial at best. In a case like this, the only answer is to ask those who make a claim to provide rules support themselves, rather than being goaded into trying to find proof against that claim (which, of course, is essentially impossible or rulebooks would all be bloated multi-volume listings of what the rules [I]don't[/I] say...) :) [/QUOTE]
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