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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ryamos" data-source="post: 4603896" data-attributes="member: 81517">Okay, I know I'm low-man on the forum totempole here, but I read up in the in the core books and heres what I've found: Page 59 of the PHB: "Sustain:..if a power has a 'sustain' entry, you can keep that power active by taking a specified type of action (minor, move,or standard) during your turn.  The 'Sustain' entry tells you if a power has an effect that occurs when you take the action to sustain it.  See 'durations,' page 278, for more about sustaining a power." So, page 278 tells us now: 'Durations: Many poers take effect and then end; their effects are instantaneous, perhaps as brief as a single swing of your sword.  Some powers last beyond your turn, however.'Unless otherwise noted, a power is instantaneous and has no lasting effect.  The two types of durations are conditional and sustained.'Durations: Conditional Durations: These effects last until a specified event occurs. 'Until the start of your next turn: The effect ends when your next turn starts. 'Until the end of your next turn: The effect ends when your next turn ends. 'Until the end of the encounter: The effect ends when you take a rest (short or extended) or after 5 minutes. 'Save Ends: the effect ends when the target makes a successful saving throw against it.' Now then, that, coupled with what is listed about sustained durations (which was already previously reviewed) should be considered with what is listed on page 279 of the PHB, "Saving Throws":'When you're under a persistent effect or condition that can be ended by a save ("save ends"), you have a chance to escape the effect each round at the end of your turn.  You do that bty making a saving through, which is a d20 roll unmodified by your level or ability modifiers.  A successful saving throw is called a save.'Saving Throws: 'End of turn: at the end of  your turn, you make a saving throw against each effect on you that a save can end.  Roll a d20, with one of the following results:  'Lower than 10: Failure.  The effect continues.  '10 or higher: Success.  The effect ends. 'Choose order: Whenever you make a saving throw, you choose which effect to roll against first, which effect to roll against second, and so on. 'Modifiers: A saving throw normally doesn't include modifiers.  It's just a d20 roll.  Some powers, feats, or racial traits might modify a saving throw." There, at the risk of having broken my poor wrist for nothing, let me sum all that stuff up for this specific case of Crown of Madness: It's a minor action to sustain it.  Each time you sustain the effect, the enemy you targetted makes a melee basic against one of it's adjacent allies that you've chosen.  Now, to end your sustained effect upon the enemy, the creature will make a saving throw (as outlined above).  If it's successful, it's not under the effect.  If it's not successful, it's still affected UNLESS! you've not bothered to sustain the effect at your turn.  Other than that, at the end of the creature's turn each round, it has to try the saving throw again. Hope that helps you all out - it does seem more complicated than it needs to be with these saving throws, but I think that's cause so many of us are used to saving throws being Against something specific.</blockquote>

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