swarm of minions attack!

[ryryguy]

Thanks for the responses...

ok, 24 minions who can actually all attack is worst case, for sure.

I had missed that minions do fixed damage and that makes a big difference. That's the kind of thing I was looking for.

They also have no hp right, just one hit and they are knocked out? Or something like that?

I'm guessing they have no powers that are not at-will so there's nothing to track there, either.

 

[frankthedm]

Minions are perfect for retuning to the glory days when the Number Appearing for orcs was 10-100 and bandits were twice that number.

Rolling handfuls of d20s should not be that hard. 8 minions will all that can gang up on one target in groundpounding melee, have the player chuck the 8 dice and add the mods.

Minions with ranged weapons will be a thorny issue to some folks since all of them can fire on the frontline or aim for the softer targets in back at a paltry -2. So unless squishy characters dealing out area effects have AC’s within one point of the front line, they are very good targets.

 

[Snarls-at-Fleas]

Hmm. OK a 24 kobold minions. Unless they are magically teleported in such position that they all can attack there is no way they can attack all at once. They'll to close for combat, they'll lose some of their numbers during that time and so on. Shouldn't be that hard.
I think the key purpose of minions was mentioned in one of the earlier Design & Development articles - the one about the encouters, with that dungeon map from 3.5 DMG. When a battle wa described they said something like "the party was losing precious actions to dispose of minions". So they should probably harrass and distract, not really attack. Eat up some resources and create a sense of big battle.
Using minions you can field a literal army of kobolds against the party, hundreds of them, but the will run for their life when their leader is dead.

Note to myself: should definitely try this.

 

[Samhaine]

Figure out the probability any member of of a clump of minions hitting their targeted PC. Multiply this by the total damage the clump could do if they all hit. Apply to PC.

A clump of 6 minions with +2 attacks that deal 4 damage on a hit will deal 12 damage to an AC 13 target or 6 damage to an AC 18 target.

 

[abeattie]

Something a friend and I were discussing... I know that in 4e the encounters are designed to be larger. A level 1 encounter might be against a group of 24 zombie or kobold minions, correct?

My friend wondered, would the DM have to potentially make 24 attack rolls (at least in the first round before the minions start falling)? Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, just that I know 4e combats are also supposed to be easier to manage and go along faster, and 24 to hit rolls in a round seems... not fast. Is there some trick or shortcut in the rules to mitigate this?

-- I have no idea what's in the full rules -- you can always make one up (say, by rolling for groups of 4 at a time).

I was planning exactly that encounter (24 kobold minions) as the second or third combat for my 4e campaign. I want to give the players a "basic-by-the-book" combat or two before I go crazy with stretching things to see what happens. I want to make sure that the first encounter is straightforward and gives my players a fun introduction to 4e (lest they become turned off by my poor combat design). The first will probably be two elites (similar to 3.5 number of baddies) the second will be a straight up 1:1 ration, and then let them finish off with an easy encounter -- on the assumption that they'll have blow their dailies by then.

I want to use that encounter as a "see, this isn't old school DnD anymore" progression from a pretty boring tank and spank up to through increasing numbers that leaves room for tactics.

If only to see the "oh s***" look when I drop 24 minis on the mat.

 

[Blackbrrd]

24 minions with a 50% chance to hit for 2 damage with missile weapons really isn't nice. That would be 24 damage to a single character.

If the minions are melee its probably ok. Its hard for 24 minions to hit the same character in melee.

 

[abeattie]

24 minions with a 50% chance to hit for 2 damage with missile weapons really isn't nice. That would be 24 damage to a single character.

If the minions are melee its probably ok. Its hard for 24 minions to hit the same character in melee.

er .. . you could have them not focus their fire. I mean, they ARE kobolds. If all kobolds fought like that, they wouldn't be just kobolds anymore.

 

[frankthedm]

24 minions with a 50% chance to hit for 2 damage with missile weapons really isn't nice. That would be 24 damage to a single character.

Thankfully, the kobold minions only had 3 throwable spears each

 

[frankthedm]

er .. . you could have them not focus their fire. I mean, they ARE kobolds. If all kobolds fought like that, they wouldn't be just kobolds anymore.

The guy who killed 6 of them with the fire blast at once is far more of a target that the oaf who only cut down two kobolds.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, I've even had an encounter including 32 'minions' (level 1 warriors) in my 3E game. It's not as bad as it sounds: Only one out of three minions was actually attacking, the other two simply assisted. I think, you could easily do the same in 4E.