Sweet20 Experience Rules Discussion.

Since I've started tinkering with the Keys system, I was thinking that we should try to complie a list of as many fair and balanced keys as we could come up with. I think most of the default keys are ok, most, and it shouldn't be too hard to come up with more.

I've been working on a Minor Key (Motivation Key) based around stealth combat. Like the Key of Bloodlust, this would trigger in combat, but only in combats where you initiated an ambush and attacked in the surprise round. You'd probably get the higher score if you dropped all your opponents in the first round of combat, or took someone who was much more powerful than you down in a few rounds because of decisive stealth attacks. I just don't know A, what to call it, and B, what to make it's counter. Shouldn't be any more unbalanced than Key of Bloodlust, anyways.

- Kemrain the Unlocked.
 

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LostSoul said:
Ambush.

The counter could be getting surprised yourself.
To be honest, I thought of that myself. Basing it around ambushing and thwarting ambushes, Key of Hypervigilence, and all, but I'm not sure it's right to lose XP for somehting that someone else's character did. We don't lose XP for our counters anymore, but as the system stands you do, and I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the system to have a counter not be something the character himself does.

- Kemrain the Disapointed, 'Cuz It's a Good Idea.
 


The way my group is handling Keys is different than the standard way, so I'll try to suggest Keys that could be easily used for either. The Stealth Combat Key mentioned above, which I'm calling Key of the Assassin for now, just to have it named, could probably work if we give it a decent counter, maybe announcing yourself to your opponents before a battle, or attacking an opponent who's expecting you, I dunno.

I don't like Key fo the Guardian or Key of Fraternity. They're pretty much Identical, for one. For another, they have a limit on the number of times per adventure (a very squishy ammount of time) you can get the 1 XP reward. I don't think that Keys should restrict you in the ammount of XP they can give.

In our modified system, we'd just say Key of the Guardian, and the GM would give out XP based upon guarding the person the Key is tagged to from harm, allocating more XP for protecting them at great risk, and more for protecting them at great personal loss, for instance. Translating this to the 'old way' of doing it isn't hard for this Key, but for some others it can be. My GM also thinks that though there are specific triggers written up for each 'step' of a Key, they shouldn't the the only method for getting XP from that Key.


Some sample Keys, sans their counters, that are appropriate for the character I'm currently running (Much easier to think of when applied to a character, for some reason):

Key of the Influential: You seek to gain the ear of the politically powerful, and to sway them to your side once you have it. Gain XP whenever your actions or words impress a leader enough to gain their sympathy and trust, or whenever you use that trust to guide the leader to see things your way.

Key of the Reviled: You are a creature hated and feared by all who hear of you, and your friends are few and far between. Gain XP whenever you make an ally of someone who knows your true nature, or convince a group that you are the exception, not the rule.

Key of the Orphan: You've lost your family, and you seek to renew the ties with long lost kin or forge new bonds with those willing to call you brother. Gain XP whenever you forge a bond with someone that is deep enough to be called family, or whenever you discover a lost relative and rekindle your relationship with them.

Key of the Assassin: You're a calculating tactician who's favored means of combat is a well times ambush. Gain XP whenever you defeat opponents through use of guile and stealth, and gain more XP when you take down an opponent without giving them any chance to react.

Key of the Manipulator: You're a conniving bastard who turns foes against eachother and who no one who knows you well trusts. Gain XP when someone takes the fall for your actions because of a well placed lie, or when someone does your will without even realising it because of your manipulation.

Key of the Free: You're a free spirit who cannot stand to live within constraints. 'Unjust' laws and 'illegitimate' rulers hold no sway over you, and you feel those around you should be free of them as well. Gain XP when you help to liberate yourself or someone else from opression, or you take steps towards eliminating the source of oppression. (E.g. Slavery, a Tyrant, Prejudice.)


Other Keys for other characters:

Key of the Pacifist: Bloodshed is not your way, and you seek to curb the use of violence as a solution to problems. Gain XP when you stop or prevent a fight and establish peaceful means of coming to a solution, and gain more XP when you can convince two opposed groups to settle their differences nonviolently at risk to yourself.

- Kemrain the Keymaker.
 
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I do have a question regarding Exp.

How do you handle magic item creation and spells that use Exp as a material component in the system?
 

BardStephenFox said:
I do have a question regarding Exp.

How do you handle magic item creation and spells that use Exp as a material component in the system?
In our game we handle it by... Not using XP to make items.

If the PC's needed to make an item, it would probably be created as what ammounts to the reward for an adventure. This won't work for everyone, though, so some conversion is in order.

The problem is that the S20 system's XP doesn't scale, where DnD's does. If you either scaled the s20 system's XP requirements and then did some funky math, or found a way to figure out at what level the items you want are supposed to be available at and reduce it down to X% of a level, that could work. I have NO idea how, though. I do know that it could be done, however.

- Kemrain the Confident.
 

Well, obviously it could be done. But how to do it is a concern for the folks that are just starting to look at the system and thinking about implementing it. In some games, it wouldn't be a concern. In others, it might be a huge concern.

I already use a different exp system. I don't use exp as a component for magic items either. But this is a conscious decision I made at the outset of the game. Changing the way exp works definitely affects some spells (Divinations & high power stuff like Wish/Miracle) as well as magic item creation. Any DM is well advised to communicate those changes to the players in advance of changing how Exp is handled.

For something like Wish, I might suggest a 1/3 exp loss.
Something like Commune, I might waive it, or cost it at 1 S20 exp point.

Knowing these things in advance of adopting the ruleset is important though so you don't stumble when it comes up in a game.
 

You could decide to waive the cost as long as the magic item in question was applicable to one of the PC's Keys. Or something like that. Hmm.
 

Or my preferred method. Instead of using the "magic number" of 13 1/3, I use the "magic number" of 15 encounters per level, which equates to a numerical formula for XP to next level as follows:
x=562.5(l(l+1)), where x is total experience for next level, and l is the character's current level.

So, in this method, a Sweet20 key would provide 75l XP for a 1-point effect, 150l for a 2-point effect, and so on. XP costs still scale normally, and the Sweet20 keys provide the same percentage of value to next level as they did the previous level. As for the change in XP chart, I just don't like the number 13 1/3, ok?
 

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