Sword and Sorcery: Literary roots of D&D

[nikolai]

I've been reading a lot of classic Sword and Sorcery literature recently and have finished all the Conan stuff (Robert E. Howard), am starting on Elric (Michael Moorcock) and am also working my way through Clark Ashton Smith. I'm also keeping a close eye on other Sword and Sorcery literature with a view to further reading.

I have to say I have been totally shocked by the heavy D&D taint that this stuff has. Part of this is just atmosphere, much of the stuff reads like boxed text, but there are themes which are very similar. This doesn't just date back to Gygax either, the Conan stories suffer from the same monkey fixation that the people who gave us 3e did and Ashton Smith uses the word fane every other sentence.

But there are also specific monsters, spells and items which have been virtually cut and pasted into the core rules. I always knew that D&D was heavily influenced by fantasy literature but, to be frank, Tolkienesque dwarves, elves, halfings, wargs and treants are the least of it. I'm not going to list all the things out there as there are far to many and it would take far too long; my favourite example so far is a trilling creature called the Remora from a (non-REH) Conan tale which has made it into the MM not once but twice. I also liked seeing the inspiration for the planes, elementals, Lords of Hell and the Law/Chaos division in Elric.

I'm not sure where this is going exactly. My knowledge of Sword and Sorcery is still very shallow, if anyone out there is more well read I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

yours,

nikolai.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Yeah, this subject has been kicked around since the 70s. Gygax has a list of suggested reading the 1e Dungeon Master's Guide, and you definitely see where all those books influenced the game (I've read just about all of them). The D&D troll comes from Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions; the magic system comes from Jack Vance's The Dying Earth and Eyes of the Overworld; Otto's Irresistible Dance seems to have originated in Roger Zelazny's Jack of Shadows; and the list goes on.

 

[Wanderlust]

Is there a good fellow out there that might be able to post that list of recommended reading?

 

[Dog Soldier]

Is there a good fellow out there that might be able to post that list of recommended reading?

Yeah, Anybody have that list and could post it?

 

[diaglo]

try here:

http://www.loc.gov/

 

[nikolai]

Yeah, this subject has been kicked around since the 70s. Gygax has a list of suggested reading the 1e Dungeon Master's Guide, and you definitely see where all those books influenced the game (I've read just about all of them).

I realise this is a old topic, I just had no idea of the shear extent of borrowing from other sources. Vance is on my list for reading (http://www.sfsite.com/10b/tde91.htm) what caught my attention was the spell:

Forlorn Encystment "which constricts the subject in a pore some 45 miles below the surface of the earth,"

Sound familiar to anyone...

nikolai.

 

[mhensley]

Bullywugs seem to have their origin in the Bloodstone novel by Karl Edward Wagner. If you like Conan, you'll love his books.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Hrrm...double post. See below.

 

[Teflon Billy]

... the Bloodstone novel by Karl Edward Wagner. If you like Conan, you'll love his books.

Guilty on both counts

If you like Bloodstone, give Darkness Weaves a shot...it is (IMO) an unsung masterpiece of the genre.

Dark Crusade is good as well. It's a shame Karl Edward Wagner has passed away, cause I loved his books

 

[hellbender]

Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books. A more earthy sword and sorcery than Moorcock, more varied in scope than Conan.

hellbender