Sword and Sorcery: Literary roots of D&D

[mhensley]

Guilty on both counts

If you like Bloodstone, give Darkness Weaves a shot...it is (IMO) an unsung masterpiece of the genre.

Dark Crusade is good as well. It's a shame Karl Edward Wagner has passed away, cause I loved his books

Yep, definitely a shame. Wagner like Howard died too young. I just picked up Death Angel's Shadow by him after a long search. Its a collection of Kane short stories that is good as well. I also just noticed this on Amazon-

The Midnight Sun: The Collected Stories of Kane

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-0621607-0975365?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Its due out next month!

 

[Desdichado]

I've always suspected, and I think Gygax has essentially said as much, although I wouldn't swear to this, that he was a big fan of sword and sorcery, but because it had essentially been torpedoed out of the literary scene by the epic fantasy typified by Tolkien, D&D was designed specifically to be a sword and sorcery game with an epic fantasy veneer.

 

[Wombat]

The original books mention Edgar Rice Burroughs, Fritz Lieber, Poul Anderson, Jack Vance and Michael Moorcock as references.

Fair place to start at least...

 

[buzz]

Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books. A more earthy sword and sorcery than Moorcock, more varied in scope than Conan.

Seconded.

Leiber's Fafhrd & Grey Mouser stories are *required* reading for anyone who enjoys D&D. Not only are they incredibly well-written, but they are a prime inspiration for D&D. The first time I read them, I said to myself: "So *that's* where Gary got all of his ideas."

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, welcome to my hell.

"Man, Drizzt is so cool and completely original!" Followed by me smacking said person upsaid the head with about 70 years of Sword & Sorcery.

You did mention Clark Ashton Smith however. Where did you find his books? I've seen some online stuff, but I love printed books.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

From the 1e DMG, p.224, by Gary Gygax:

Inspirational Reading:

Anderson, Poul. THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS; THE HIGH CRUSADE; THE BROKEN SWORD
Bellairs, John. THE FACE IN THE FROST
Brackett, Leigh.
Brown, Fredric.
Burroughs, Edgar Rice. "Pellucidar" Series; Mars Series; Venus Series
Carter, Lin. "World's End" Series
de Camp, L. Sprague. LEST DARKNESS FALL; FALLIBLE FIEND; et al.
de Camp & Pratt. "Harold Shea" Series; CARNELIAN CUBE
Derleth, August.
Dunsany, Lord.
Farmer, P.J. "The World of Tiers" Series, et al.
Fox, Gardner. "Kothar" Series; "Kyrik" Series; et al.
Howard, R.E. "Conan" Series
Lanier, Sterling. HIERO'S JOURNEY
Leiber, Fritz. "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" Series; et al.
Lovecraft, H.P.
Merritt, A. CREEP, SHADOW, CREEP; MOON POOL; DWELLERS IN THE MIRAGE; et al.
Moorcock, Michael. STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS; "Hawkmoon" Series (esp. the first three books)
Norton, Andre.
Offutt, Andrew J., editor SWORDS AGAINST DARKNESS III.
Pratt, Fletcher, BLUE STAR; et al.
Saberhagen, Fred. CHANGELING EARTH; et al.
St Clair, Margaret. THE SHADOW PEOPLE; SIGN OF THE LABRYS
Tolkien, J.R.R. THE HOBBIT; "Ring Trilogy"
Vance, Jack. THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al.
Weinbaum, Stanley.
Wellman, Manly Wade.
Williamson, Jack.
Zelazny, Roger. JACK OF SHADOWS; "Amber" Series; et al.

The most immediate influences upon AD&D were probably de Camp & Pratt, REH, Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, HPL, and A. Merritt; but all of the above authors, as well as many not listed, certainly helped to shape the form of the game. For this reason, and for the hours of reading enjoyment, I heartily recommend the works of these fine authors to you.

 

[Monte At Home]

I just (like as in, a few moments ago) finished an article for a Journal called the Excellent Prismatic Spray (issue #6) about the influence of Jack Vance on D&D from my perspective. More than just the magic system, I think the whole mood and atmosphere pervasive particularly in 1E, comes straight from Vance. D&D characters really are Vancian in many ways.

 

[Melan]

I've always suspected, and I think Gygax has essentially said as much, although I wouldn't swear to this, that he was a big fan of sword and sorcery, but because it had essentially been torpedoed out of the literary scene by the epic fantasy typified by Tolkien, D&D was designed specifically to be a sword and sorcery game with an epic fantasy veneer.

That is probably a good assessment. Tolkienesque elements in D&D are just like the trappings from the middle ages - they are for show. At its core, a typical D&D story is a lot closer to something Conan or Ffahrd&Mouser would experience - and in form, it is more similar to a short story than a multi-volume epic like the Rings trilogy.

 

[Olive]

I post in every one of these threads, and I should probably not bother.

I really don't like the genre. You know hiow you can read an interview with a band and they say they love X broken up band, and you listen to them and they really really suck?

That's how I feel about most of the books Gygax listed as influences. I know they're important, and I know we wouldn't have DnD as it is today withoutt hem, but I really don't like them. I've always liked the DnD magic system, but you know what? I almost stopped liking it the first time I read Vance.

Now, in case anyone misunderstands, I'm not saying that no one should like them or that you're a bad person if you do. Just that for every DnD player who loves these works, there are those who don't. That being said, I do like HP Lovecraft and Tolkien. Just not Vance or Leiber (bar that one Fafhrd story where he becomes a god for a day, that was really well done).