D&D (2024) Sword Coast population data from 2024 D&D Pocket Expert

[Dire Bare]

Huh! I wonder if we’ll get population numbers in the upcoming FR campaign books. Previously with 5e, they’ve mostly shied away from any kind of demographics. This is something I’ve missed from previous editions.

While this book is official, keep in mind it isn't a game book or a "5E" book. It's a licensed book, from DK.

And population numbers in D&D books have always been goofy.

But 2 million for a large renaissance-era city isn't actually unrealistic, even before the fantasy elements get applied. Part of Waterdeep's fantasy is "enormous city".

 

[Zardnaar]

That's crazy big. Idaho only has 2 million people. And ancient Rome was never that big. I get that the realms is more 19th century than it is medieval, but that's just huge.

The rural population in the Sword Coast most be massive to feed all the cities.

There's a river valley there with golden fields.

10% or less was urbsnized.

So 200k in Waterdeep 1.8 nearby.

UK had around 5 million around union with Scotland in q8th century.
1492 Castille about 4 million Aragon 1 million.

France was tbe powerhouse population wise.

 

[Zardnaar]

While this book is official, keep in mind it isn't a game book or a "5E" book. It's a licensed book, from DK.

And population numbers in D&D books have always been goofy.

But 2 million for a large renaissance-era city isn't actually unrealistic, even before the fantasy elements get applied. Part of Waterdeep's fantasy is "enormous city".

It's very unrealistic unless you count surrounding area.
London hit a million in 19th century. No sewage system until 1858 iirc.

1 million is imperial capital in Rome eg or China. Maybe Baghdad.

200k up is major city in Eastern Mediterranean (Alexandria, Constantinople) China, India or Aztec capital.

 

[Demetrios1453]

No, Waterdeep is fed by Golden fields, an Abbey dedicated to using high level Cleric and Druid magic to mass produce food thwt was established by one of Greenwoods players.

Waterdeep's ballooned population is a direct result of taking D&D magic to a logical consequence.

Also, Waterdeep's hinterland, east to the Dessarin and north to Amphail, is quite large enough to produce enough food to feed the city to it's pre-3e level of about a million or so. However, yeah, Goldenfields is basically "drop modern agricultural yields into a medieval setting" situation.

 

[Zardnaar]

Also, Waterdeep's hinterland, east to the Dessarin and north to Amphail, is quite large enough to produce enough food to feed the city to it's pre-3e level of about a million or so. However, yeah, Goldenfields is basically "drop modern agricultural yields into a medieval setting" situation.

Even without that it's probably big enough using our renaissance tech.

Look at France's population say 1600. 18-20 million.

 

[gban007]

That's crazy big. Idaho only has 2 million people. And ancient Rome was never that big. I get that the realms is more 19th century than it is medieval, but that's just huge.

The rural population in the Sword Coast most be massive to feed all the cities.

Rome did get to 1 million at it's peak, so twice the size in a place that is more advanced and with magic available doesn't feel too much of a stretch to me.

 

[Zardnaar]

Rome did get to 1 million at it's peak, so twice the size in a place that is more advanced and with magic available doesn't feel too much of a stretch to me.

Rome required Egypt, North Africa, Iberia, Italia to support it.

 

[cbwjm]

A labor force of undead? The ultimate green energy. Skeltons produce no greenhouse gases, consume no resources, and can't unionize.

If you take D&D magic to it's logical conclusion most jobs would be outsourced to undead, animated objects, and bound extraplanar beings. The mending Cantrip replaces 100 of jobs. It makes sense people go adventuring unemployment would be sky high.

Perhaps out of boredom. If jobs can be covered by DnD magic, it might be a post-scarcity society where the needs of the many are easily met.

 

[roguish]

That's crazy big. Idaho only has 2 million people. And ancient Rome was never that big. I get that the realms is more 19th century than it is medieval, but that's just huge.

First, magic.

Second, don't get hung up on western/northern European cities, their urban growth was very delayed compared to other places. In the thousand-year span of the Middle Ages, no European city north of Rome came remotely close to the populations of Ctesiphon, Baghdad, Cairo, Alexandria, Constantinople, Angkor, Nanjing, Kaifeng, Beijing, or Rome itself, with estimates ranging from half a million to more than a million. Baghdad hit 1,200,000 and one estimate for Hangzhou (these are all estimates, yes? it's VERY tricky to be accurate about such things) gives it 1,500,000 in 1200 CE. Two million people for a city brimming with magic (including, importantly, magical farms) is absolutely fine.

 

[Zardnaar]

First, magic.

Second, don't get hung up on western/northern European cities, their urban growth was very delayed compared to other places. In the thousand-year span of the Middle Ages, no European city north of Rome came remotely close to the populations of Ctesiphon, Baghdad, Cairo, Alexandria, Constantinople, Angkor, Nanjing, Kaifeng, Beijing, or Rome itself, with estimates ranging from half a million to more than a million. Baghdad hit 1,200,000 and one estimate for Hangzhou (these are all estimates, yes? it's VERY tricky to be accurate about such things) gives it 1,500,000 in 1200 CE. Two million people for a city brimming with magic (including, importantly, magical farms) is absolutely fine.

Except Waterdeep is modeled after Europe more. And lacks the basics that allowed those non European cities to hit those sizes.

Even magic only goes so far. It's not producing the food eg plant growth but transporting it.

FR doesn't have a lightning rail network, magical steamship en masse, magical food replicator as standard tech, magical trucks imperial capital, or fertile floodplain with year round growing season (or two crops high calorie crop like rice).

Because magic only goes so far.

5E maps are roughly same size as 3.5 but if the 2 million figure is accurate it's increased in size by a factor of 15-20.

Dessarin valley and area around Waterdeep is plausible enough at 2 million.