D&D (2024) Sword Coast population data from 2024 D&D Pocket Expert

[Parmandur]

Im curious. Does "OG" mean "original gangsta", or "original Greenwood", or something else?

Open to interpretation. 1E Forgotten Realms was pretty Gansta though.

 

[Yaarel]

Open to interpretation. 1E Forgotten Realms was pretty Gansta though.

So, you mean "original gangsta" in the sense of early "authentic" gangsta rap music, by analogy?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So, you mean "original gangsta" in the sense of early "authentic" gangsta rap music, by analogy?

Yep, you thought 2pac and Biggie were dead, but they were isekai-ed into the Realms a long time ago.

 

[Bluenose]

Could someone explain to Ed Greenwood if no-one else wants to listen what 2 million people need in terms of food, water, firewood, cloth, and other necessities' and politely suggest that perhaps Waterdeep could be toned down to something more reasonable like 1/2 million or so. Not to mention the stink from the "waste" that it produces. Waterdeep, the City You Can Smell From Twenty Miles Away."

Mind you I've seen a description of some emperor sending 50,000 light cavalry to the desert to fight an enemy - presumably ones he didn't want to be cavalry or even alive any more.

 

[Parmandur]

So, you mean "original gangsta" in the sense of early "authentic" gangsta rap music, by analogy?

Something like.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Could someone explain to Ed Greenwood if no-one else wants to listen what 2 million people need in terms of food, water, firewood, cloth, and other necessities' and politely suggest that perhaps Waterdeep could be toned down to something more reasonable like 1/2 million or so. Not to mention the stink from the "waste" that it produces. Waterdeep, the City You Can Smell From Twenty Miles Away."

Mind you I've seen a description of some emperor sending 50,000 light cavalry to the desert to fight an enemy - presumably ones he didn't want to be cavalry or even alive any more.

Food - explained multiple times earlier in the thread.

Water - that's a bit less well explained, at least to the point where it's as solid as the food situation. There are wells to Undermountain (which has a full-sized river running through it), and since Waterdeep is located in a Seattle-type climate, they do store a lot of the plentiful rainwater for drinking.

Sanitation - The city has a well-developed sewer system (which many an adventure has taken place in!) that dumps sewage well out to sea. As for other types of waste, may I introduce you to Rat Hills? And yes, the smell is stated to be indescribable and being detectable from miles away.

 

[TiQuinn]

Here’s the thing: in practical terms of the actual game at table, what’s the difference if Waterdeep is 2 million, 1 million, 500k, or 10 million?

It’s a big fantasy city where you can potentially find anything or any plot hook.

 

[Ancalagon]

See, right there, that's a problem. Why on earth would you ever take an overland route from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate? 30 days overland - limited to what you can carry in a wagon, or 10 days by ship and carrying about 100 times as much as a wagon could. Yet, Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate is only listed by land route? This was the absolutely baffling part about Tyranny of Dragons (or Horde of the Dragon Queen, whichever). You wind up walking from (more or less) Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep. Takes like a freaking month to get there. Totally pointless.

All this stuff is just so bad. It's laughably bad.

But, in any case, the idea that Waterdeep and environs is 2 million is just ridiculous. But, instead of simply writing it off as a mistake, we have to have this endless debate about how to make it not ridiculous. Pulling out stuff from video games where they obviously were not paying much attention to the setting when they were creating the video game.

I mean, good grief, we have a 100+ pages of details of Waterdeep in Waterdeep Dragon Heist. NONE of what you guys are on about is mentioned there. There's NOTHING to suggest that Waterdeep is Post Rennaisance. Buy, hey, if that's what your Waterdeep looks like, I'm not going to stand in your way. Have at it. Me? I'd much rather simply ignore the stuff that makes very little sense than tie myself in knots trying to square circles.

I agree with you on both points. Unless the sea is impassable, which is not the case, sea travel, even with relatively limited ships (say a 200 ton cog) is far more profitable and capable than overland travel.

This is even more reasons to use the 3e version of Forgotten Realms. What's so great about the new version anyway?

 

[Ancalagon]

I just realized something.

A big change that happened in 3e FR (from 2e FR) was the rise of the Red Wizards of Thay as magical merchants. This matched the 3e rules, which were FAR friendlier to magical item creations , esp compared to 2e. It made a lot of sense that there would be a trade of these items.

But in 5e, this didn't quite work anymore. It just didn't fit the rule set. However, it seems that 5.5 will have a pretty decent magic item crafting system. So the "red wizard as sinister merchants" thing works again!

And to me, this was the main obstacle to sticking to 3e version of FR

(well the real main obstacle is that I prefer other campaign settings but if I was using FR, 3e is what I would do)

 

[Hussar]

See this is what I mean about fantasy writers not having a clue.

People have gone on and on about how Waterdeep is a “deep water port”. Only thing is, with the ship technology of the time, no one needs a deep water port. We’re talking cogs and caravels. Maybe a carrack. A 20 foot deep harbour is all you need.

You need to be a deep water port for modern transport ships. Being a deep water port in DnD land is largely pointless. Nothing you can sail alwould have a draft even remotely needing that depth.

And you can’t point to sewers if most of the 2 million population doesn’t live in the city. And wells? Umm, the river under Waterdeep is six HUNDRED feet down. That’s a hell of a well system.

But yes. It’s maaaaagic. That solves all the problems. That’s not lazy world building at all.

All to justify what is obviously ridiculous instead of just saying, yup, that’s wrong. Here’s a more plausible scenario.