Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Swordmage: Help grasping the concept, please
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Doctor Proctor" data-source="post: 5146212" data-attributes="member: 78547"><p>While Swordmages and great and all, there is another option that might fulfill what you're looking for: Hybrid Fighter/Sorcerer.</p><p></p><p>Dragonborn make the ideal race for this, since they get a boost to both STR and CHA, the main stats for each class. Plus, there's some nice racial feats for both classes that make use of your Dragonbreath Racial Power.</p><p></p><p>Hybrid Fighter gives you some of the durability of Fighters and access to Combat Challenge. You're limited to marking with only your Fighter powers, but otherwise it functions as normal. Hybrid Sorcerer gives you Sorcerous Power, which allows you to use either STR or DEX (picked at character creation) as the stat which boosts your damage for Sorcerer power, as well as the stat to use to determine AC (instead of DEX/INT).</p><p></p><p>This means that at level 1 you can go with 18 STR and 18 CHA (after racial mods) and dump the rest into CON or DEX (or go 12/12 for both stats). Now, it might take a couple levels worth of feats to get what you need, but this should work okay for the first couple of levels.</p><p></p><p>At level 1 you'll need to make a choice between weapons and armor, since you'll be limited in both. Personally, I would shore up your AC first by taking the Hybrid Talent Option and taking the Fighter Armor Proficiencies. Once you have that, you have proficiency in every armor type except for Plate. You could either start using Hide or Scale, they'll give you the same AC bump (Hide might be better in the long run though, YMMV).</p><p></p><p>As for weapons, you have two choices. Go with a Quarterstaff, which functions as both an implement or a weapon, or you can dual wield something like a Longsword and a Dagger. Since you mentioned wanting to be a "swordmaster who could cast spells", let's assume you go the dual wield option.</p><p></p><p>At level 2 then, you get another feat. Here, I would pick up Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades), as this will allow you to use that Longsword as an implement. Now, you don't need the dagger anymore, and you can pick up a Light or Heavy Shield to use in your off hand. This will up your AC a couple more points to the level of most other Defenders, and it will also shore up your REF defense a bit. That last part is actually pretty important too, because now you'll have a high FORT and WILL, and with a Shield and perhaps a feat like Lightning Reflexes later, you'll have a decent REF as well. The one downside here is that you won't be able to use Sorcerous Blade Channeling, as it only works with daggers. Personally though, that's not a big concern since you have plenty of Melee powers, and Sorcerers have tons of Close Blast powers that won't provoke OA's.</p><p></p><p>The other great thing about the Fighter/Sorcerer combination is that there's a lot of defensive Sorcerer powers that make it painful for enemies to be near you. Combine those with a mark, and suddenly you create a lot of excellent "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" choices for your enemies. You could open a combat with something like Passing Attack to mark two enemies, and then later when they're both focused on you, use Dragonflame Mantle to cause 1d6 fire damage to anyone that hits you with a melee attack (I believe that also gets the bonus Sorcerer damage, so it's actually 1d6 + STR). It's like a one round version of some of the later Fighter stances, which are all dailies.</p><p></p><p>I included a sample build up to level 3 below, if you want to take a look.</p><p></p><p>[sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======</p><p>Kava, level 3</p><p>Dragonborn, Fighter|Sorcerer</p><p>Sorcerous Power: Sorcerous Power Strength</p><p>Hybrid Talent: Fighter Armor Proficiency</p><p>Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)</p><p>Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength</p><p>Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Lightning</p><p></p><p>FINAL ABILITY SCORES</p><p>Str 18, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 18.</p><p></p><p>STARTING ABILITY SCORES</p><p>Str 16, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 16.</p><p></p><p></p><p>AC: 20 Fort: 16 Reflex: 14 Will: 16</p><p>HP: 35 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 9</p><p></p><p>TRAINED SKILLS</p><p>Streetwise +10, Intimidate +12, Athletics +7</p><p></p><p>UNTRAINED SKILLS</p><p>Acrobatics -1, Arcana, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance -1, Heal +1, History +2, Insight +1, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion, Stealth -1, Thievery -1</p><p></p><p>FEATS</p><p>Level 1: Hybrid Talent</p><p>Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency</p><p></p><p>POWERS</p><p>Hybrid at-will 1: Burning Spray</p><p>Hybrid at-will 1: Cleave</p><p>Hybrid encounter 1: Passing Attack</p><p>Hybrid daily 1: Lightning Breath</p><p>Hybrid utility 2: Dragonflame Mantle</p><p>Hybrid encounter 3: Flame Spiral</p><p></p><p>ITEMS</p><p>Hide Armor, Longsword, Heavy Shield</p><p>====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>Later options would be things like going up to a superior weapon, although I would probably just stick with a Bastard Sword. Your Fighter powers might not do a lot of damage, since you're building this a bit like a Guardian Fighter, but your Sorcerer powers (and their damage bonus) will make up for that. Really though, the possibilities are endless.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and one nice thing about using Heavy Blades as your weapon/implement, is that you could afford to drop STR to a 16 (post racial), which frees up some more points to drop into DEX if you want (you could go 13/14 CON/DEX). This gives you an extra point of REF defense, allows you go with Scale and Heavy Shield and then pick up Shield Specialization (another +1 AC and +1 REF in Paragon) and even HBO, since you'll have a 15 DEX at Paragon. You won't be able to get Heavy Blade Specialization at Epic (at least not without sacrificing a point of STR or CHA), but you will qualify for Sorcerer Implement Expertise, since Heavy Blades will count as a Sorcerer Implement for you.</p><p></p><p>Hope that helps and gives you some interesting ideas.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Doctor Proctor, post: 5146212, member: 78547"] While Swordmages and great and all, there is another option that might fulfill what you're looking for: Hybrid Fighter/Sorcerer. Dragonborn make the ideal race for this, since they get a boost to both STR and CHA, the main stats for each class. Plus, there's some nice racial feats for both classes that make use of your Dragonbreath Racial Power. Hybrid Fighter gives you some of the durability of Fighters and access to Combat Challenge. You're limited to marking with only your Fighter powers, but otherwise it functions as normal. Hybrid Sorcerer gives you Sorcerous Power, which allows you to use either STR or DEX (picked at character creation) as the stat which boosts your damage for Sorcerer power, as well as the stat to use to determine AC (instead of DEX/INT). This means that at level 1 you can go with 18 STR and 18 CHA (after racial mods) and dump the rest into CON or DEX (or go 12/12 for both stats). Now, it might take a couple levels worth of feats to get what you need, but this should work okay for the first couple of levels. At level 1 you'll need to make a choice between weapons and armor, since you'll be limited in both. Personally, I would shore up your AC first by taking the Hybrid Talent Option and taking the Fighter Armor Proficiencies. Once you have that, you have proficiency in every armor type except for Plate. You could either start using Hide or Scale, they'll give you the same AC bump (Hide might be better in the long run though, YMMV). As for weapons, you have two choices. Go with a Quarterstaff, which functions as both an implement or a weapon, or you can dual wield something like a Longsword and a Dagger. Since you mentioned wanting to be a "swordmaster who could cast spells", let's assume you go the dual wield option. At level 2 then, you get another feat. Here, I would pick up Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades), as this will allow you to use that Longsword as an implement. Now, you don't need the dagger anymore, and you can pick up a Light or Heavy Shield to use in your off hand. This will up your AC a couple more points to the level of most other Defenders, and it will also shore up your REF defense a bit. That last part is actually pretty important too, because now you'll have a high FORT and WILL, and with a Shield and perhaps a feat like Lightning Reflexes later, you'll have a decent REF as well. The one downside here is that you won't be able to use Sorcerous Blade Channeling, as it only works with daggers. Personally though, that's not a big concern since you have plenty of Melee powers, and Sorcerers have tons of Close Blast powers that won't provoke OA's. The other great thing about the Fighter/Sorcerer combination is that there's a lot of defensive Sorcerer powers that make it painful for enemies to be near you. Combine those with a mark, and suddenly you create a lot of excellent "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" choices for your enemies. You could open a combat with something like Passing Attack to mark two enemies, and then later when they're both focused on you, use Dragonflame Mantle to cause 1d6 fire damage to anyone that hits you with a melee attack (I believe that also gets the bonus Sorcerer damage, so it's actually 1d6 + STR). It's like a one round version of some of the later Fighter stances, which are all dailies. I included a sample build up to level 3 below, if you want to take a look. [sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Kava, level 3 Dragonborn, Fighter|Sorcerer Sorcerous Power: Sorcerous Power Strength Hybrid Talent: Fighter Armor Proficiency Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group) Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Lightning FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 18, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 18. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 16, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 16. AC: 20 Fort: 16 Reflex: 14 Will: 16 HP: 35 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 9 TRAINED SKILLS Streetwise +10, Intimidate +12, Athletics +7 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics -1, Arcana, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance -1, Heal +1, History +2, Insight +1, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion, Stealth -1, Thievery -1 FEATS Level 1: Hybrid Talent Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency POWERS Hybrid at-will 1: Burning Spray Hybrid at-will 1: Cleave Hybrid encounter 1: Passing Attack Hybrid daily 1: Lightning Breath Hybrid utility 2: Dragonflame Mantle Hybrid encounter 3: Flame Spiral ITEMS Hide Armor, Longsword, Heavy Shield ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== [/sblock] Later options would be things like going up to a superior weapon, although I would probably just stick with a Bastard Sword. Your Fighter powers might not do a lot of damage, since you're building this a bit like a Guardian Fighter, but your Sorcerer powers (and their damage bonus) will make up for that. Really though, the possibilities are endless. Oh, and one nice thing about using Heavy Blades as your weapon/implement, is that you could afford to drop STR to a 16 (post racial), which frees up some more points to drop into DEX if you want (you could go 13/14 CON/DEX). This gives you an extra point of REF defense, allows you go with Scale and Heavy Shield and then pick up Shield Specialization (another +1 AC and +1 REF in Paragon) and even HBO, since you'll have a 15 DEX at Paragon. You won't be able to get Heavy Blade Specialization at Epic (at least not without sacrificing a point of STR or CHA), but you will qualify for Sorcerer Implement Expertise, since Heavy Blades will count as a Sorcerer Implement for you. Hope that helps and gives you some interesting ideas. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Swordmage: Help grasping the concept, please
Top