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Swordsage: The Complex Fighter
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6364250" data-attributes="member: 6774887"><p>I completely agree that having +2 to hit is a big deal. That is why this ability is so limited. You are forced to use a d8 damage weapon (or less), in one hand with nothing in your off hand, not even a shield. This option deals the least damage of all the styles. </p><p></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em>Interesting...I considered this a filler ability. Afterall, to use it you must reduce your damage by 1/2. You cannot use a strike the same turn you use this ability either. It is like the reverse of the monk, rogue, and barbarian abilities that do something similar as all of those still allow you to attack at full strength. There is a big difference between using your action to attack and being able to do something else as a bonus action and using your action to do something and a bonus action to make a single attack. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I think I will reduce the maximum number of attacks to 4.</p><p></p><p></p><p> As a legendary strike, this is supposed to be wowing. </p><p></p><p> This is one of the few obviously supernatural maneuvers available to the Swordsage. Of course the wizard has been shooting off lightning bolts for levels by the time the Swordsage gets access to this. I don't even think I have ever seen a wizard choose lightning because it is such a crappy spell compared to fireball. </p><p></p><p> I thought it was per short rest. I'll double check when I get a chance as update this if needed. Remember, the half Orc ability does not require your reaction or for you to spend your combat focus.</p><p></p><p> Freedom of movement protects you for a long duration. Freedom of movement can protect you from multiple effects over the course of a single battle. This ability is definitely powerful, but IMHO it is needed in a world where Save or Suck spells exist. Hold person with DC 17 is almost unbreakable for most warriors. Dragons have fear with a DC of 19+. Polymorph, dominate, reverse gravity, contagion, wall of force, etc are all game over spells for martial warriors. This ability at least gives you a second chance. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you are falling into the schrodinger's wizard problem. The Swordsage cannot be good at everything all the time. He can be defensive, but only when he gives up offense. He can be mobile, but only when he gives up defense. He can use a strike maneuver now, or save his focus for an off-turn counter. </p><p></p><p>If the Swordsage maneuvers were all at-will and usable all the time I might agree with you more, but in actual playtesting I have done, using a boost or a counter is a significant trade off. If you are worried about needing to save your focus to get a reroll on a saving throw, then you are far more hesitant to initiate a strike.</p><p></p><p>You do bring up some great points though. The Swordsage is hugely more versatile than the fighter. That is partly because the fighter has no versatility at all though. What is versatility worth? The Swordsage is strictly inferior in terms of damage and survivability. Is that enough of a trade off? I can post numbers if you want to see just how far behind the Swordsage is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6364250, member: 6774887"] I completely agree that having +2 to hit is a big deal. That is why this ability is so limited. You are forced to use a d8 damage weapon (or less), in one hand with nothing in your off hand, not even a shield. This option deals the least damage of all the styles. [U][/U][I] [/I]Interesting...I considered this a filler ability. Afterall, to use it you must reduce your damage by 1/2. You cannot use a strike the same turn you use this ability either. It is like the reverse of the monk, rogue, and barbarian abilities that do something similar as all of those still allow you to attack at full strength. There is a big difference between using your action to attack and being able to do something else as a bonus action and using your action to do something and a bonus action to make a single attack. [U][/U] I think I will reduce the maximum number of attacks to 4. [U][/U] As a legendary strike, this is supposed to be wowing. [U][/U] This is one of the few obviously supernatural maneuvers available to the Swordsage. Of course the wizard has been shooting off lightning bolts for levels by the time the Swordsage gets access to this. I don't even think I have ever seen a wizard choose lightning because it is such a crappy spell compared to fireball. I thought it was per short rest. I'll double check when I get a chance as update this if needed. Remember, the half Orc ability does not require your reaction or for you to spend your combat focus. [U][/U] Freedom of movement protects you for a long duration. Freedom of movement can protect you from multiple effects over the course of a single battle. This ability is definitely powerful, but IMHO it is needed in a world where Save or Suck spells exist. Hold person with DC 17 is almost unbreakable for most warriors. Dragons have fear with a DC of 19+. Polymorph, dominate, reverse gravity, contagion, wall of force, etc are all game over spells for martial warriors. This ability at least gives you a second chance. I think you are falling into the schrodinger's wizard problem. The Swordsage cannot be good at everything all the time. He can be defensive, but only when he gives up offense. He can be mobile, but only when he gives up defense. He can use a strike maneuver now, or save his focus for an off-turn counter. If the Swordsage maneuvers were all at-will and usable all the time I might agree with you more, but in actual playtesting I have done, using a boost or a counter is a significant trade off. If you are worried about needing to save your focus to get a reroll on a saving throw, then you are far more hesitant to initiate a strike. You do bring up some great points though. The Swordsage is hugely more versatile than the fighter. That is partly because the fighter has no versatility at all though. What is versatility worth? The Swordsage is strictly inferior in terms of damage and survivability. Is that enough of a trade off? I can post numbers if you want to see just how far behind the Swordsage is. [/QUOTE]
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