[SWSE] Autofire seems very broken

[Asmor]

So tonight was my D&D game, but as 2 players weren't showing up I decided to cancel it and we ran a quick one-shot of Star Wars instead. Unfortunately, since we only had one book, it took several hours for everyone to make their characters and we only had time for one combat, where I pitted them against a wookie, a pair of gamorreans and a pair of rodeans.

One thing I quickly noticed is that Autofire seems very, very powerful. Of the 5 players, 4 were all hunched around a door (3 using it for cover and the fourth a droid standing in the doorway)... As its first combat action the wookie did an auto-fire on the door with his blaster rifle and a critical hit ensued which would have killed all 4 of them if I hadn't fudged it and called it a regular hit instead.

I didn't enforce the licensing rules, so I thought maybe these were just supposed to be out of reach of a level 1 character, but really it only costs 100 credits for a blaster rifle license... The knowledge check is the real hurdle, it seems, but I see no reason not to let someone start off with the gun if they paid for it at character creation... And hell, what about characters which belong to the military?

Am I missing something about autofire? Or was this just a particularly bad example since they were all concentrated like that? Even if they weren't, it shouldn't be terribly hard to get two people with autofire under normal conditions, and even if they make their saves you're still doing 50% damage to each meaning 100% damage, so it's essentially a guaranteed hit with the potential for double damage.

 

[jonathan swift]

Autofire and other area attacks aren't auto hits though. It was a mistake in the book, but you have to roll at least a 10 to hit with them. Still very powerful though.

And note that is roll a 10, not get a 10 with bonuses.

 

[frankthedm]

I don't know the star wars rules, but in my book, 2 guys with automatic weapons trained on a doorway SHOULD be cutting in half anyone who tries to go through the door like a giant pair of scissors.

the "rocK" that beats that technique is a Grenade. Flash bangs or smoke grenades work well enough IRL.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think the problem is more to do with Criticals not needing to be confirmed anymore.

If they had cover in the doorway then their reflex save was +5, and the chap using autofire was at -5 to his attack.

Assuming a 1st level Wookie with a Blaster Rifle isn't the best shot in the world, chances are if he had not rolled the critical he wouldn't have hit at all, thus 1/2 damage.

I really think there needs to be some restrictions, like if you use autofire you cannot critical, or if you need 20 or more to even hit you can't critical.

Although personally I might house rule in a confirmation roll, it really doesn't slow the game down that much since you only get threats on a 20 nowadays.

 

[Plane Sailing]

If the three people by the door were using it for improved cover rather than cover, they take half or no damage from autofire.

It might turn out that a reasonable house rule is to allow normal cover give the 'half or no damage from autofire' too, since presumably roughly half of the shots are going to be spanging into the cover rather than hitting you.

I've not finished reading the rules, but can autofire or area attacks get critical hits? Just wondering.

 

[Bagpuss]

Nothing to say they can't as far as I can see and they need to make an attack roll.

 

[Henry]

Autofire and other area attacks aren't auto hits though. It was a mistake in the book, but you have to roll at least a 10 to hit with them. Still very powerful though.

And note that is roll a 10, not get a 10 with bonuses.

Plus, autofire is an area attack, and can't get double-damage crits, same as with grenades - so you didn't fudge anything on that part.

Now, if you're talking about the burst fire fear which lets you target a single target for +2 dice of damage, that COULD go critical.

 

[Bagpuss]

Plus, autofire is an area attack, and can't get double-damage crits, same as with grenades - so you didn't fudge anything on that part.

Why do you say that? You have an attack roll and there is nothing on page 145 (critcals) or 155 (Area Attacks) to say Area Attacks don't critical.

In other D20 games Area Attacks didn't critical because you didn't make an attack roll the target made a reflex save. In Saga you make an attack rolls and compare it with their Reflex Defense. Since you as the attacker are making an attack roll you can roll a natural 20 in which case the critical rules on page 145 seem to apply as there is nothing to say they don't.

 

[Bagpuss]

I found this in Official Errata Compilation Thread on Wizard's board.

Cover & Area Attacks (Errata)
If you have cover and are being fired upon by an area attack, you take no damage if the attack misses (instead of half).

So it seems any level of cover reduces that damage to zero on a miss.

 

[drothgery]

Why do you say that? You have an attack roll and there is nothing on page 145 (critcals) or 155 (Area Attacks) to say Area Attacks don't critical.

I'm almost certain that Rodney or Gary has confirmed that they're not supposed to critical.